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WH: 8th Ed

db2000 said:
Mr Rose -
hey there fella, calm down. I confess already ;0) Did not look at the note on the others my apologies (no book present at time).

Re the Corpse cart, not sure how to interpret that one really - faq says Page 90 – Necromancer Options, Corpse Cart Add “Count the cost against your allowance for Heroes.”

You are right of course but what happens here exactly? Cost with Necromancer counts as hero cost; cost without necromancer counts as core but not towards minimum core I guess? Is this your interpretation?
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First, do not presume to know me well enough to know my state of mind. I will thank you to be less rude in future.

Second, what other interpretation is there? Mounts count towards the mounted character's points so they should count with him in the heroes section. Carts without guys riding them count towards not very much at all.
 
Skaven List...Not sure about this, cuz I don't have the book at work with me...but the Squeel Gnawtooth character is a unit upgrade to the giant rats unit....does he upgrade an existing packmaster, or is he "in addition" to any packmasters that you buy for the unit. The points in AB say (+100) but the points in the roster show as (108). I'm assuming the 8 pts is for a packmaster, but I'm not sure that's right.
 
Brother Bart said:
Skaven List...Not sure about this, cuz I don't have the book at work with me...but the Squeel Gnawtooth character is a unit upgrade to the giant rats unit....does he upgrade an existing packmaster, or is he "in addition" to any packmasters that you buy for the unit. The points in AB say (+100) but the points in the roster show as (108). I'm assuming the 8 pts is for a packmaster, but I'm not sure that's right.
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That's right; Most (all?) of the special champions are upgrades to an existing model, just like a regular champion, as I recall.
It's certainly the case for Skweel.
One thing though; if you have 25 rats and five packmasters then upgrade one to Skweel, then take away Skweel again, you are left with 25 rats and 4 packmasters; is there a way to make the "downgrade" auto-add a normal packmaster to the unit?
 
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V14 Dwarf Issue

Quarrellers upgraded to Rangers are not getting the option to add throwing axes... It's working properly for Longbeards and Warriors.

BTW: Thanks for all your hard work on this. :D
 
I think you guys have got the Corpse Cart thing wrong.

It is clearly a Core choice and should be moved back to the core list. It counts against Hero points only when taken as a mount for Necromancer.

And as per the Amendments Section of the VC FAQ V2010 1.1 (refering to page 88) the rule that excludes Corpse Carts, Dire Wolves and Bat Swarms is to be ignored. As is every other word on the page. Which leads me to belive all these core choices now count towards the minimum points for core. I know the 8th ed rule book refers to units that dont count towards the minimum but as written I see these VC units excluded from this group. I presume that this is nOt inteded and the FAQ Amendment should be changed to esnure that these VC units are subject to this rule.

I know there is a note on each units entry but I presume this is to be ignored as it as reference to the rule on page88. However, I expect this will be found to be the wrong interpretation.



Please check this as it is only my conclusion to date. Happy to be proven wrong but woud like to see an actual page/book reference if possible.

Thanks guys .
 
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Mr_Rose said:
First, do not presume to know me well enough to know my state of mind. I will thank you to be less rude in future.

Second, what other interpretation is there? Mounts count towards the mounted character's points so they should count with him in the heroes section. Carts without guys riding them count towards not very much at all.
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Not presuming to know you at all fella, in fact all my posts have been polite, honest and jovial to a degree. But it must be said you are wearing your state of mind on your rolled up sleeves at present. Why I do not presume to know? But being rude to someone posting honest comments should cause you to stop and think about being less rude/sarcastic in future yourself!

Anyway good luck with your life and all that you do but be less fractious going forward and take the threads that are posted here in their intended nature. Not everyone is a rules lawyer and personal opinions, lack of knowledge and differences are what spark new imaginations and interest to the gaming universe we all love. Who knows maybe we have met and played across the table from one another.

Once again best of luck to ya!
 
mandril_hydana said:
I think you guys have got the Corpse Cart thing wrong.

It is clearly a Core choice and should be moved back to the core list. It counts against Hero points only when taken as a mount for Necromancer.

And as per the Amendments Section of the VC FAQ V2010 1.1 (refering to page 88) the rule that excludes Corpse Carts, Dire Wolves and Bat Swarms is to be ignored. As is every other word on the page. Which leads me to belive all these core choices now count towards the minimum points for core. I know the 8th ed rule book refers to units that dont count towards the minimum but as written I see these VC units excluded from this group. I presume that this is nOt inteded and the FAQ Amendment should be changed to esnure that these VC units are subject to this rule.

I know there is a note on each units entry but I presume this is to be ignored as it as reference to the rule on page88. However, I expect this will be found to be the wrong interpretation.
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The thing is, how do we know the words to be ignored on p.88 aren't a reference to the rules in the actual unit entries, since neither of them says "see p.XX" or otherwise makes reference to any other page?
Also, the Errata/FAQs have been pretty thorough; why wouldn't they also remove the relevant notes if the were to be ignored?

PS @ db2000; your projection is showing. You might want to put that away before it trips you up.
 
The new Banner that adds +1 to Leadership is not adding it to the profile. It should look something like how the Hand Weapon/Shield worked. On that regard. hw/shield bonus is still showing in system.

Leadership 9/10

It needs to pass bonus to the BsB or the unit.
 
Excellent Point...

Mr_Rose said:
The thing is, how do we know the words to be ignored on p.88 aren't a reference to the rules in the actual unit entries, since neither of them says "see p.XX" or otherwise makes reference to any other page?
Also, the Errata/FAQs have been pretty thorough; why wouldn't they also remove the relevant notes if the were to be ignored?
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Excellent Point... I am not very familar with how these things are resolved. But for me its simply the fact that in the unit entry it says 'Note:' before this reference. Its not under the special rules or any other place that actual unit rules should be.

I think they are supposed to be excluded from counting as core but to me thats not what the rules and FAQ's result in.

I will be happy if we can just get the CC back into Core on AB where it belongs. Really not sure how it ended up in the Hero list.

As for the FAQs I have been trolling through them and have found some (only very few) clashes. Eg. The 8th ed rulebook faq says that you dont get VP's unless you kill both the character and their mount. But the Bretonnian one acrually details points values for Leonceur and Beaquis (not sure on correct spelling). This would seem to me like an obvious contradiction.
 
Wait, since when is the corpse cart not listed under core? My 8e file has it there...

Also, the "Note this unit doesn't count" format is largely consistent across all army books, so either none of the units that formerly didn't count towards much do so now, or they continue to not do so.
 
mandril_hydana said:
I think they are supposed to be excluded from counting as core but to me thats not what the rules and FAQ's result in.

I will be happy if we can just get the CC back into Core on AB where it belongs. Really not sure how it ended up in the Hero list.
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As written in the Faq VC armies ignore page 88 completely. That stated...

Page 92: Dire Wolves... quote: "Dire wolves do not count towards your minimum core requirements."

Page 93: Bat Swarms... quote "Bat Swarms do not count towards your minimum core requirements."

Page 93: Corpse Cart... quote "Corpse carts do not count towards your minimum core requirements."

I don't think it gets any clearer than that. No reason to FAQ any changes.

As for your second part about the CC being on the hero list..... in 8th edition a necro on a corpse cart means that the cart counts towards your hero allotment -because a necromancer is riding him. Think of it like when a character is riding a dragon, it comes out of the same slot that the character is from -even thouh on its own a dragon is a a rare choice. Thus when a corpse cart is on its own it is a 'core' unit that doesn't count towards the core requirements.

So.... wovles, bat swarms, cc (w/o a necro) only count towards total points not the 25% min core.




Mr_Rose said:
Wait, since when is the corpse cart not listed under core? My 8e file has it there...

Also, the "Note this unit doesn't count" format is largely consistent across all army books, so either none of the units that formerly didn't count towards much do so now, or they continue to not do so.
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thats why this is the bug reports forum. According to the ruels it isn't supossed to count.
 
Thanks

To all who have worked on updating AB to 8th Ed, especially Silks, many thanks. I am a quadriplegic with limited hand function and poor writing. AB help me save so much time!
 
Hi guys,

Yep I agree that they should not count but I was not sure about how the FAQ note that says ignore page 88 impacted this. If Notes on a Unit entry are the norm then that is fine with me. This issue is resolved for me.

As for the Cart being in the hero list (as per the last version I downloaded via a link from here) I know they count towards hero points when mounted by a Necro. The point is that they are still are core unit entry and should remain in that section on AB, with the wolves and bat swarms.

Thanks for the info guys. I appreciate the lively debate.
 
First of all, I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who is working hard to update AB to 8th Ed. and thanks to everyone who is submitting any bugs or errors that need to be changed in the files. I have been following the thread so far but I have now just bothered to register.

Now onto the VC issue. Gkgnight is correct. Any unit, in any army book, that states "does not count towards..." does not count for anything but your total points. They do not count towards the 25% of your points spent on core and the 3 minimum units you need to take.
 
Lord Kahlain said:
Quarrellers upgraded to Rangers are not getting the option to add throwing axes... It's working properly for Longbeards and Warriors.

BTW: Thanks for all your hard work on this. :D
Click to expand...

Page 53 clearly states... "Warriors or Longbeards that are upgraded to Rangers can additionally be armed with throwing axes at a cost of +1 point per model".

Quarrellers do not have an option to take throwing axes. Lets be careful to not introduce new bugs. :)
 
Dark elves:

When taking a Dreadlord (lord choice) and putting him on a Black dragon, the Composition Summary adds the points of both, both to Lord and Hero choices.
 
Skavens :

The War Banner costs 35 points. I read in the FAQ that we must still use the costs of the army book if different from the new rulebook.
 
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