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Printing Content

This was a bit of WTF! moment for me. Clearly my fault for not investigating a bit more, but the ability to print off stuff in an RPG campaign manager seems such a core basic feature I never even thought about it not being there.

Playing with monitors is totally impractical where I play, and using tablets is just something I want to avoid, IMHO nothing kills game sessions like having everyone browsing tablets rather than playing the game. That said I have considered tablets as more RPG tools go 'modern', but if it is IPad only then it is pointless for us, only 1 person I know would even think of buying an IPad over an android tablet.

Whilst support for all of that stuff is nice, and even quite interesting, I am surprised it took priority over some basic print/export capability.

Apart from that the product looks really nice, but I can't decide whether to stick with it and hope export arrives soon or notch it up to $50.00 that could have been used for something else.

PS I am a software developer working for a cloud based software company, my aversion to tablets etc at the table isn't simple technophobia.
 
I also prefer people to not have electronics at the game. I (the DM) am the only one who uses electronics at the game.

There is also something really nice about tactile handouts.

And I too am a software developer, and many of the people at my game are.
 
Hi all. I registered here just so that I could express my desire for some print functionality. I have shown my play group this software, and all agree that it looks amazing. However, we do not use electronics at the table (Well, I as DM do sometimes, but... anyways). Therefore, the only thing that is stopping me from purchasing RealmWorks is the lack of print functionality. I understand the goal of RW, but if it could allow for printing, it would be the most amazing software as far as world/story building and at-table functionality, at least for me and my group. +4 for PRINTING!
 
Count me for a +1. Where I play is not always conducive to having everyone on-line. Plus having them pay for software that as of right now would only be for my campaign is a bit of a stretch.
 
Here's my +1.

This was a bit of WTF! moment for me. Clearly my fault for not investigating a bit more, but the ability to print off stuff in an RPG campaign manager seems such a core basic feature I never even thought about it not being there.
Click to expand...

I had the exact same reaction when I realized I wouldn't be able to print anything from Realm Works.

I know surveys showed this was not the most wanted feature in number, but it should be weighted by the impact on the user. For those who require this feature, the impact is quite critical.
 
Zaphod Beebledoc said:
But surely you could say that about any feature?
Click to expand...

Well not really.

Features can be measured in 3D:

- The number of users asking for it
- the benefits for these users
- the cost of its implementation

It's is not fair to say that all features are equal in this regard.

If you read this thread you'll agree that a significant amount of users ask for a print feature.

And make sure to +1 the import thread to make sure your opinion is taken into account ;)
 
Well, part of the multi-dimension reasons for not offering it now is that LWD is working hard to make RW protect content-seller's IP while offering the greatest flexibility in how user integrate that content into their realms. Whatever the results of the survey, I doubt that we we would ever see printing capabilities released before the Content Market ("CM"). On the other hand, I'm hoping that we'll see printing come fairly quickly on the heels of CM.

As for your weighting of features, there are some very detailed posts from the developers explaining their methodology and explaining the business decisions regarding features. But, based on your criteria, I still am not sure that printing comes on top.

1. Number of users asking for it. There has been a lot of discussion on whether DM users requests should be given higher weighting than players. But even among DMs, printing is obviously not critical to the majority, or there would be no users. I agree that many potential DMs (and perhaps players) are turned away because of the lack of printing support and that many of those potential users likely wouldn't have taken part in the RW survey. Still for many of us, we would rather have features that help us build immersive realms, collaborate, and track progress. For me, I would much rather have custom calendars above everything else. But even more DMs and players feel that they need journals and individual player reveal. For you intended use and playing style, printing may seem critical, but for many—myself included—I just don't see myself using printing much. I just can't stand DMing from printed material.

2. The benefits for these users. I agree that for DMs that don't like DMing from the computer, printing is a valuable feature. However, clearly, it is not a critical feature to everyone—a majority of the current user base in fact. For many, there is a strong desire, but for many others it is merely a nice to have.

3. The cost of its implementation. I can't speak to the development costs of including basic printing. I would think it would be too much effort to implement simple printing. The problem is that they cannot simply allow printing of entire topics without taking into account IP-rights of the content sellers. It is critical for their business model to get this right and it is a very complicated programming challenge. It is not inexpensive to implement printing, given the larger intended use and business strategy of the tool.

So, the number of users asking for it is large, but not a majority, the benefits for many of the users asking for it is critical, but many most users who would like printing rank its important behind other features, and the cost of implementing printing is significant—and if they get it wrong, it could significantly damage their business and viability of the product.
 
Just to be up front, I disagree with the need for printing capabilities.

I am not trying to start an argument with anyone on this thread, and I know GMing is all about different strokes for different folks, That said, I really don't understand this use case. For me, the elegance of Realm Works is I can finally ditch a big, sloppy pile of printouts, and just run everything from my computer. I really cannot imagine a need to print out of Realm Works directly (although I do understand the desire to export data into another, more universal format for future proofing, etc., but I feel that is a different issue somewhat unrelated to the printing question).

I employ handouts in my game, but I definitely wouldn't use Realm Works to create those things. I personally create physical handouts in other software that is focused on layout and presentation - things like Word or Photoshop. I will often create an artifact (a map or image, for example) that gets printed out, but I will also include the file I printed as a snippet in a related topic. The printout is handled by a program designed to make pretty printouts; Realm Works handles the organization and context of that printed work.

I guess for me, Realm Works is a purely digital platform, and the idea of trying to print a hard copy of the information is counter to my concept for the platform. The beauty of Realm Works is the "living document" nature of it, and I think any attempt to make a hard copy from that undermines the usefulness. I rely on Realm Works to be my master set of notes - not only what is going on in the world, but also what the characters know. I have not found an elegant way of maintaining those two (often disparate) realities in physical notes.

I understand that just because I don't see the value for my use case, does not invalidate others opinion about what's an important feature. However, I just cannot get my head wrapped around why printing directly from Realm Works is such a deal breaker for so many people.

The only use case I can see would be your used RW to build your campaign, but you don't have a laptop to use at the table, so you need to print out notes to run sessions. But if that's your situation, I'm not sure Realm Works is really the best tool on the market for you - something like Scrivner might be a better option.

Some of this might be alleviated by the web version Lone Wolf is working on - if you could build your Realm on a desktop, and have access to reveal content and take in game notes via an inexpensive tablet or Chromebook, it could obviate the need for a Windows based laptop. But that's really just opening up the tool to other platforms, and isn't really changing the paradigm of what Realm Works does. Fundamentally, I feel Realm Works is a digital tool for campaign management - and though I am sure physical handouts will always be a part of table top gaming, does Realm Works really need to be the thing that generates those things? At my table, at least, it isn't, and I have no plans of changing that. The more I use RW, the more power I find in keeping the information in the digital space. But that is also because I have my laptop at the table and I'm updating the content as the game progresses.
 
I need printing and could care less about calendars. Let's cut both requirements and call it even. Or how about we just honor the promises of the Kickstarter and get them both implemented before yet another year goes by?

If you don't need a feature, I respect that. Feel free to keep multiple copies of everything in Word, Photoshop, etc. rather than collect them all under RealmWorks where they can be indexed and integrated. I want to create a different future than you. I want to see us all moving forward to better gaming rather than being forced to maintain multiple copies of everything still. I want RW to be useful at all tables rather than just those with a good connection and a laptop....
 
It's been hashed out before, but I'll just summarize my issues (as a member of the "lack of printing was a truly disappointing and mind-boggling shock to me" club).

First off, I GM with as little in front of me as possible. Maybe a sheet or two with a few notes on it and a couple of dice. I hate using a laptop.

Second, as part of a larger issue, printing is about exporting my data. I want to own and control my own data, and Realm Works is right now a one-way data trap. I want to get my data out and do other things with it. Printing capabilities means printing to PDF and then extracting text, or many other methods (like printing to HTML). I like what I can do with Realm Works, but there are things that it can't do, or things that I want to do differently. And, darn it, it's my data.

It's gone back and forth before, and the answer is "different strokes for different folks" and never the two sides of "print or not print" shall meet.
 
AEIOU said:
I need printing and could care less about calendars. Let's cut both requirements and call it even. Or how about we just honor the promises of the Kickstarter and get them both implemented before yet another year goes by?
Click to expand...

It isn't about cutting requirements, it is about prioritizing which are worked in first. Neither printing nor calendars have been given top priority for reasons explained in great detail in other threads. But these are still on the development road map.

That said, I wasn't part of the original Kickstarter and no promises were made to me. I knew (or should have known) of the abilities and limitations when I bought it. Kickstarter backers may have more legitimate complaints about development priorities base upon what may have been promised to them. Even then, I feel that the CM is critical to RW's long term success, so I want them to get it right even it it is taking much longer than expected and is holding up development on other features.
 
MaxSupernova said:
... as part of a larger issue, printing is about exporting my data. I want to own and control my own data, and Realm Works is right now a one-way data trap. I want to get my data out and do other things with it.
Click to expand...

I agree that the inability to export data needs to be addressed, but I'm sure that the fact that we currently can't is due to the same reason we can't print. They need to have the functionality in place to allow that while protecting the IP of those who sell content on the content market.
 
MNBlockHead said:
I agree that the inability to export data needs to be addressed, but I'm sure that the fact that we currently can't is due to the same reason we can't print. They need to have the functionality in place to allow that while protecting the IP of those who sell content on the content market.
Click to expand...

Yep. And I'm holding on because I know that addressing IP issues is the biggest hurdle that they have to jump, and without that they can't really do anything else. I expect we'll have some indication of the direction this will go before things go a whole lot farther in any other area. That will give us some idea of how the product will shape out and we can make the call to continue or not after that.

It might not be soon, but it probably will be next.
 
One very simple thing to do is to prevent any market content from being printed/exported.

I don't think it's ideal, I think purchased content should be printable, it is fair use of the content (to present to the players for instance).

However, being able to print user made content would solve a big part of the problem waiting for a better solution that can handler purchased licensed content.
 
I assuming what people want is to print off the snippets they want, but how about this for a temporary solution...

It is possible to print some things off from out of RW. It needs however to be something like a pdf or a spreadsheet, something that opens up in an external program.

Not ideal for everything I realise...
 
Bobifle said:
One very simple thing to do is to prevent any market content from being printed/exported.

I don't think it's ideal, I think purchased content should be printable, it is fair use of the content (to present to the players for instance).

However, being able to print user made content would solve a big part of the problem waiting for a better solution that can handler purchased licensed content.
Click to expand...

I agree, but I don't envy LWD for having to code a solution that attempts to strike the balance. They'll likely err on the side of content-creator rights, however, as an IP lawsuit can seriously impact their business more than a few disgruntled or lost customers. For a discussion of the challenge, see this thread: http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?p=211237#post211237

It will be interesting to see how this works in practice once the content market is released.
 
I still don't see the IP issue with printing .

It's not like anyone is going to print thousands of hardcopies and send them all over the pirate crowd around the world.

Edit : OK I may have overlooked the fact you can install "printers" than actually dump the content into a file.
 
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Bobifle said:
I still don't see the IP issue with printing .

It's not like anyone is going to print thousands of hardcopies and send them all over the pirate crowd around the world.

Edit : OK I may have overlooked the fact you can install "printers" than actually dump the content into a file.
Click to expand...

Printing is (will be) printing to PDF as well so someone could... it is hashed out largely in the other thread but it was made pretty clear we wont see any type of export outside the marketplace without some protections that I'm not confident exist yet and I'm not quite sure how that wont include printing at least at this stage. That's my perception of things as they stand and I'm not factually quoting anyone read the other thread if you want everyone's opinions in detail about this issue.
 
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