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Pathfinder for Hero Lab Online

What?

No, Etools is Archaic. HLC is bound in some older processes that have been adjusted over time and can have some conflicts from time to time. The new version should have some better interaction and have a better interaction between particulars. That it was moved to Online model is frustrating to some, including me, but a newer product doesn't mean the first one was or is somehow obsolete. With the newer version, there are a lot of small things that simply can not be done as it was with the classic desktop program. (Please do not call it an App) These things may get an equivalent way to do those things, but it may never get to the point of actually being able to perform those things, either as well as the classic program, or not at all.

I don't know if it is because of the Online model, or if the new version is still incomplete with the rush to do this, or the lack of resources to get it ready. I would hope that Lone Wolf would give some thought to contacting Code Monkey to see if they could collaborate and use some of their expertise.
 
What?

No, Etools is Archaic. HLC is bound in some older processes that have been adjusted over time and can have some conflicts from time to time. The new version should have some better interaction and have a better interaction between particulars. That it was moved to Online model is frustrating to some, including me, but a newer product doesn't mean the first one was or is somehow obsolete. With the newer version, there are a lot of small things that simply can not be done as it was with the classic desktop program. (Please do not call it an App) These things may get an equivalent way to do those things, but it may never get to the point of actually being able to perform those things, either as well as the classic program, or not at all.

I don't know if it is because of the Online model, or if the new version is still incomplete with the rush to do this, or the lack of resources to get it ready. I would hope that Lone Wolf would give some thought to contacting Code Monkey to see if they could collaborate and use some of their expertise.
This makes very little cohesive sense, any chance you could clarify what you mean. Code monkey? why?
 
So is Pathfinder 1.0 and 2.0 going live in August?

Pathfinder 1E is currently remaining on HLC. There is a plan to port to HLO but no time frame at this point. Once that happens, if you choose to pay a small fee to port your content to HLO you should be able to use it in either system. (At least that is my understanding from the last I heard about it.)

Pathfinder Playtest (for the 2E playtest) will be supported in HLO. More on that should be available at GenCon. Hopefully, that will be a full release but I'm not sure that is what was actually promised. I think the announcement at PaizoCon (a single slide and Paizo staff making the announcement) was along the lines of more details at GenCon.

Paizo will be releasing Pathfinder Playtest at GenCon 2018 (early August) and the current plan is for the release of Pathfinder 2E (or whatever it will be called) at GenCon 2019.

I had a chance to experience some of the Playtest at PaizoCon and it was fun. There are a couple of elements I am uncertain of yet and I look forward to the Playtest in full to really experience the currently proposed system.
 
This makes very little cohesive sense, any chance you could clarify what you mean. Code monkey? why?

The older program is still valid despite it's age, and can do all that it needs for the Starfinder game if it was to be developed for it. The newer program, which is only accessed from a online portal, has newer bells and whistles but does not, and may never, have all the functionality of the older program.

The only thing the older program can not do, as has been said by Lone Wolf, is the starship particulars. This could have been a separate program or specifically written for the alpha of this online model to test the waters.

Code Monkey did a bang up job of adjusting and expanding Etools to work with 3.5 after Fluid did half the job and fled. They were/are working on their own RPG aid that would have replaced that program, but with Herolab having taken over, I think their work combined with what Lone Wolf has planned would help speed up the development if Codemonkey could be convinced to use what they have to bolster the new product. Perhaps making permanent hires of the few that are still in the company? (They did announce that they are hiring)
 
Code Monkey Publishing, I think now is just Mynex at this point. Originally, there were three principals, but the other two left years ago, Lonejedi and Barak I think were there user handles at the time. I just saw that Mynex has resurrected the website and is starting on new stuff, but not sure how much of a programmer Mynex is. I think Barak and Lonejedi were the principal coders at the time for eTools and they had a couple of guys that were doing the bulk of the data sets. Their new tool that they took pre-orders for, never materialized and vanished into the ether at this point. My recollections only, so take with a grain of salt.
 
The older program is still valid despite it's age, and can do all that it needs for the Starfinder game if it was to be developed for it. The newer program, which is only accessed from a online portal, has newer bells and whistles but does not, and may never, have all the functionality of the older program.

The only thing the older program can not do, as has been said by Lone Wolf, is the starship particulars. This could have been a separate program or specifically written for the alpha of this online model to test the waters.

Code Monkey did a bang up job of adjusting and expanding Etools to work with 3.5 after Fluid did half the job and fled. They were/are working on their own RPG aid that would have replaced that program, but with Herolab having taken over, I think their work combined with what Lone Wolf has planned would help speed up the development if Codemonkey could be convinced to use what they have to bolster the new product. Perhaps making permanent hires of the few that are still in the company? (They did announce that they are hiring)

This makes a bit more sense. Starships are not the only thing, it is just one of the things. Starships fall into the category of shared resources. They mentioned things like party treasure tracking also.

Desktop apps are a dying thing, I know, that's what I have been working on for the last 2 decades. Web based HL is the future, and I am sure the standalone version will be supported for a while, but it will go away eventually. A server based model will allow more features, for example real time updates of the GM's copy of characters in the tactical console as buffs/debuffs are added.

Yes network connectivity could be built into the desktop app, but that is a lot of work on an old code base where this wasn't an original part of the design.
 
I would still want a lot of the features that are in HLC that simply are not in HLO, and may never get to be implemented because of one thing or another.

I get that a newer program is needed at some point, but putting it on a browser isn't changing that it is still a program, one that is on a server rather than one's own computer. Leasing a program is becoming more popular for a lot of other companies, for a lot more money than what Lone Wolf is charging now. I would hope that the various licenses and add on player materials would be cheaper with this compromised version of HeroLab, but I am guessing that it will be the same as it would have been on the Classic version, which is on top of the leasing fee.
 
I would still want a lot of the features that are in HLC that simply are not in HLO, and may never get to be implemented because of one thing or another.

What features do you want that they have not stated already that they will be adding? I know there are things that are not implemented yet, but they have stated that they will be (with the "soon" caveat of course).
 
There are lots of features on the "soon" list, which have been there for months. For myself, the ability to log multiple devices in simultaneously is on the top of the list. I have the maximum number of additional licenses in HLC, which they've said will transfer, but after months there is still no way to do this, and no way to just purchase additional simultaneous logins for HLO. Frankly, for me, this is a make-or-break. I'm willing to wait additional months, but find my confidence in the product shaken with each additional passing month in which this feature is not made available and is not even mentioned as a currently-under-development item.

I don't want to abandon the HLO product. It shows great potential. I'm using it now, but it's much less useful to me than it would otherwise be, and that won't work (for me) in the longer run.
 
There are lots of features on the "soon" list, which have been there for months. For myself, the ability to log multiple devices in simultaneously is on the top of the list. I have the maximum number of additional licenses in HLC, which they've said will transfer, but after months there is still no way to do this, and no way to just purchase additional simultaneous logins for HLO. Frankly, for me, this is a make-or-break. I'm willing to wait additional months, but find my confidence in the product shaken with each additional passing month in which this feature is not made available and is not even mentioned as a currently-under-development item.

I don't want to abandon the HLO product. It shows great potential. I'm using it now, but it's much less useful to me than it would otherwise be, and that won't work (for me) in the longer run.

I don't want this come out as an excuse for the developers, but I get the feeling that Pact Worlds and Dead Suns content pushed at least some of the items on the roadmap to the side. In that same vein the upcoming Armory book and Pathfinder 2nd Ed. are both likely impacting ongoing improvements and new functionality implementation to some degree. To me that is perfectly acceptable.

All that said it would be nice if the Future Roadmap post was updated more frequently. It hasn't been updated since January. I think that a lot of the concern that is posted here comes from uncertainty. I know that Lone Wolf is a smaller company and I do not know what their internal policies are regarding how much information they share, but just an update saying "here are some of the improvements we have put on hold while we focus on having the Armory book ready on release day." would go a long way in reassuring those that are looking for it.
 
This is a list of stuff you can't do.

Putting your own pic in for the Portrait, Printing the character using normal character sheet, printing character using self made/user made character sheet, Saving a character on one's own computer, using the client offline (on one's own computer instead of server), adjusting scripts to accommodate user made entities/adjustments of houserules, access to other licenses from Classic already bought and paid for, access to the program from an interface that works outside of a browser (PC/Mac), ability to add in/adjust magical items to fit campaign, ability to run in play adjustments at the table (offline, as most Wi Fi is paid only, especially at conventions), able to print directly to PDF (Using CutePDF or another client?)...

I am sure there is more, this is just off the top of my head. I am on it now and will be testing out some of the things myself. If it is like the Demo of the Classic version, I won't be able to print anything anyways, but I need to finagle around the program (client?) to see how it is.
 
This is a list of stuff you can't do.

Putting your own pic in for the Portrait, Printing the character using normal character sheet, printing character using self made/user made character sheet, Saving a character on one's own computer, using the client offline (on one's own computer instead of server), adjusting scripts to accommodate user made entities/adjustments of houserules, access to other licenses from Classic already bought and paid for, access to the program from an interface that works outside of a browser (PC/Mac), ability to add in/adjust magical items to fit campaign, ability to run in play adjustments at the table (offline, as most Wi Fi is paid only, especially at conventions), able to print directly to PDF (Using CutePDF or another client?)...

I am sure there is more, this is just off the top of my head. I am on it now and will be testing out some of the things myself. If it is like the Demo of the Classic version, I won't be able to print anything anyways, but I need to finagle around the program (client?) to see how it is.

At least one of the things you've mentioned might not even be possible given that Hero Lab Online is a web program. I don't know how Lone Wolf Development could implement "access to the program from an interface that works outside of a browser (PC/Mac)". It is Hero Lab Online. It is browser based. My limited understanding of programming/web development leads me to think this would require a separate program for both Mac and PC (potentially IOS and Android as well) that can access the server. That would be counterproductive to their reasoning for going online. One of the reasons they chose a web based program so they wouldn't have to create programs for multiple platforms.

Custom character portraits and offline mode are both on the roadmap as future enhancements. Printing directly to PDF is already available. I print all of my players' character sheets to PDF to save as backups at each level. For now I am adding custom character portraits by printing to PDF, adding the image to the sheet, then printing it.

Access to previously purchased HLC licenses will be implemented as new systems are converted over to HLO. Until then you still have access to everything you have already purchased in HLC. Even after new systems are implemented you will not be required to convert over to HLO, so you can stick with what you like if HLO never improves to an acceptable level to you.
 
At least one of the things you've mentioned might not even be possible given that Hero Lab Online is a web program.

And THAT is the issue. It's a web program. Someone before said desktop programs are dying. This is why. Companies are moving to fully web-based strategies before they are able to handle everything that a desktop program can handle.

All I want to do is create and reference my Starfinder characters from my computer without having to worry about whether or not I have a good wifi connection. With what has already been implemented, HLC would have been a far superior solution. But they say no, we need shared resource management (starships). Where is it? Still to come... soon... ish... maybe...


Access to previously purchased HLC licenses will be implemented as new systems are converted over to HLO. Until then you still have access to everything you have already purchased in HLC. Even after new systems are implemented you will not be required to convert over to HLO, so you can stick with what you like if HLO never improves to an acceptable level to you.

And yet I can't do that with Starfinder because... starships...
 
Companies are moving to fully web-based strategies before they are able to handle everything that a desktop program can handle.

The thing is they needed to start somewhere. If they hadn't of started when they did, they were going to lose out to other online systems that have character management as secondary to VTT support. But those VTT companies are continuing to invest in character management features, causing LWD to lose market share. It was effectively change or die a slow death.
 
The thing is they needed to start somewhere. If they hadn't of started when they did, they were going to lose out to other online systems that have character management as secondary to VTT support. But those VTT companies are continuing to invest in character management features, causing LWD to lose market share. It was effectively change or die a slow death.

How is HLO going to work with VTT? It isn't. So your argument is specious.
 
How is HLO going to work with VTT? It isn't. So your argument is specious.
Actually its not in the least. On the road map for HLO is web services or APIs that not only allow VTT integration but also other services. One of those would be Realm Works or even home grown apps that could communicate via the API.

Server based software opens up allot of possibilities for the future. :)
 
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And THAT is the issue. It's a web program. Someone before said desktop programs are dying. This is why. Companies are moving to fully web-based strategies before they are able to handle everything that a desktop program can handle.

All I want to do is create and reference my Starfinder characters from my computer without having to worry about whether or not I have a good wifi connection. With what has already been implemented, HLC would have been a far superior solution. But they say no, we need shared resource management (starships). Where is it? Still to come... soon... ish... maybe...




And yet I can't do that with Starfinder because... starships...

So why are you even bothering with HLO then? It sounds like it isn't what you want. You are obviously a fan of HLC, but that isn't the direction Lone Wolf is going. HLC will still be there for what you have already purchased so you aren't losing anything there.

I am sorry that Lone Wolf is going in a direction you aren't fond of, but I don't see them changing course. You could go with PCGen. Their development has slowed down due to lack of people to code and test, but you could help with that.
 
Actually its not in the least. On the road map for HLO is web services or APIs that not only allow VTT integration but also other services. One of those would be Realm Works or even home grown apps that could communicate via the API.

Server based software opens up allot of possibilities for the future. :)

This in addition, you don't need to use the VTT portion to use the character portion. IF one of the VTT companies produced a character builder that was almost as good as HLC but offered real time adjustments to a party of PC's, i.e. buffs/de-buffs, PF AP encounters and resource tracking I would have a hard time not switching to it.
 
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