One Hero Lab for the group

[Korlall]

Hey there,

I bought Hero Lab and planning to buy the additional data packages. I'm the DM and the players are currently using an excel sheet for their characters but I think they would love to use Herolab as well. I know they won't buy the product with all the packages themselves.

I know the software comes with 2 licenses and we can buy other in other to use Herolab on other computers but it doesn't say really if it's intended for the same person or not...

Can I buy additional licenses and give them to my players so they can manage their characters with all the datapackages I would have bought so we could all use Hero Lab while gaming ?

Thanks

 

[liz]

Korlall, thanks for asking! Each Hero Lab account (and all associated licenses) is for one person only. We outline that a little bit more in our License Terms and Conditions.

The other licenses are meant for a player or a GM that may want Hero Lab on their desktop and their laptop.

 

[Korlall]

Ok so let's say as the DM I run a campaign and I allow the contents let's say from the core books plus some additionals books that I bought as additional data packages (let's say 40$ of bonus content).

I have 4 players. Me, as well as the player would have to buy Hero lab and those 40$ of bonus data for a total of about 70 $ each ? That would make about 350$ for running a 4 players game with core books and few addons. Is this what Lone Wolf Developement intended to make people pay ? That sounds pretty expensive... I guess there is something I am missing...

 

[liz]

If your players are going to be manipulating their characters on their own computers, they should have their own separate Hero Lab accounts.

Keep in mind that you can use the Editor to create material as well. So, if you're playing Pathfinder and one of your players uses one feat from Ultimate Combat and nothing else, it may make more sense for them not to purchase the additional supplement and just add the feat through the Editor.

Rob explained it really well in a previous thread with someone asking a similar question:

[Many groups share books], which is perfectly acceptable. The key detail here is that there is only one copy of a book, so only one of you can use the book at any given time. You need to pass it around the table. Now extend that concept to a Hero Lab license. If you put it on one laptop, you can pass the laptop around just like a book. However, if you put the same license on multiple computers, then everyone in the group can share the same copy at the same time. That's no longer anything close to sharing a book. It's now equivalent to making complete copies of the book and passing them out to everyone. Most reasonable people would consider that an inappropriate activity, and we do as well.

The Hero Lab license is setup along these lines. However, we go well beyond the limits of a single book. We provide a free secondary license to run the product on a second computer, so you effectively get two books for the price of one. You're also able to purchase up to two additional secondary licenses for only $10 apiece. So you can essentially buy two extra full copies of all the books for $10 apiece. That's a lot more generous and flexible than managing a single book. However, there is still the limitation that you can't just give the product away to others. We consider that to be reasonable.

In your situation, you might consider getting an old used laptop and putting a secondary license on it. Then you can pass that around amongst your players, along with your own laptop. That's the equivalent of having two sets of all the books available at the table for sharing, and it's all in keeping with the license.

His suggestion at the end may be a good solution for your group if you don't think they'd want to purchase Hero Lab.

 

[Kairos]

In my experience, the whole group doesn't need HL. FWIW, what I do as GM is use Hero Lab as the source of truth for the game's PCs. It's like a section of my GM's binder, if you will, from back in the old days. In essence, I have my players roll up their characters, then I plug them into my Hero Lab to store and manage them. I then print out the character sheets (our export stat blocks for pbp games) and distribute these to the players who mark them up during play.

Some like this, some like to use their own pencilled-in official sheets (I play with old guys). In any event, the HL sheets help make sure everyone is on the same page. Any changes I record at the end of the session -- a couple guys just turn in their sheet at the end of the session and get a new one via email or just wait until the next game to get a fresh printout.

Anyway, that's how I use it. I've only ever gamed with one person who also had Hero Lab on his own.

 

[ShadowChemosh]

In my experience, the whole group doesn't need HL.

While this is valid way to game and I belong to a group that does this exactly its not the only way. The games I DM tend to go to high level and using HL at the game on a laptop or now iPad is GREAT! It helps speed the game up so much especially with all the different buff spells or de-buffs on characters. We play Pathfinder and you have remember all those "things" that don't stack. Well with HL you don't have to anymore. You click on the "In-Play" tab and boom make adjustments to your character.

Or heck you get poison and need to apply 5 Str Damage. Click on the Adjust tab and apply it. All calculations on the hero is redone for you. So each player in my group eventually went to laptops and then when the iPad HL app came out everyone switched to the iPad. You get faster game play and the iPad takes up so little room at the game table.

My opinion is each player using HL during the game is a MUST have now.

 

[Kairos]

My opinion is each player using HL during the game is a MUST have now.

Fair point.

I think it depends on your group. Most of my friends are averse to having electronics at all at the table, and spending money on software they could spend on books is against their religion.

 

[ChrisRevocateur]

So, just to make sure I've got this clear: If I were to set up a server with remote desktop or an application server connected to 6 thin clients, one each for players, and a full workstation for the GM, I would need 7 licenses, even though the program is running technically on only one machine?

I've had this idea for the ultimate electronically aided RPG game room in my head for a while, and now that a question like this is coming up, even though my concept is FAR from being birthed (need a better job before I can get the capital to even get a server machine in the first place), I should ask this question and see if my idea is squashed from the start.

 

[cryptoknight]

If you're legitimately purchasing a Windows Server, and the CALS for it... Hero Lab is a bargain in comparison.

 

[cryptoknight]

That said, if it's only installed on 1 PC... as I understand the licensing for HL it's per Machine (i.e. friends can sit down at your PC and make and create characters with no trouble)... If you seriously setup a Windows Terminal Server in Application mode and put HL on it... it's still only installed on one PC at that point.

 

[lifer4700]

If your players are going to be manipulating their characters on their own computers, they should have their own separate Hero Lab accounts.

Keep in mind that you can use the Editor to create material as well. So, if you're playing Pathfinder and one of your players uses one feat from Ultimate Combat and nothing else, it may make more sense for them not to purchase the additional supplement and just add the feat through the Editor.

Rob explained it really well in a previous thread with someone asking a similar question:



His suggestion at the end may be a good solution for your group if you don't think they'd want to purchase Hero Lab.

So, I think I was using it correctly... (I stopped using HL because we don't use Pathfinder anymore)

I have all four licenses - the two I got when I purchased HL, and the additional two for $10 each. I bought nearly all the PF datasets.

I kept one copy on my "main" computer that I did the majority of the editing on (let's face it, nothing beats a real keyboard and mouse), and one on my laptop that I used when I ran the game session - Tactical Console rocks!

I also had one each on two "side" machines that players could go up to during breaks or during downtime and play around with their characters, check requirements for prestige classes, plan out feat progressions, print extra character sheets, make updates, and the like.

I would sync all the character portfolios manually when needed.

I had always assumed this was legal, since all computers were owned by me, and only one person at a time was ever using each licence. Was I good?



* As for players needing HL during combat, I find it's not a requirement. I do have one that uses the iPad app, but no one else owns an iPad (all Android). So I just check the conditions, and other adjustments (ShadowChemosh rulez!) myself from the Tactical Console. I know their bonuses better than they do sometimes.

 

[Nikmal]

That said, if it's only installed on 1 PC... as I understand the licensing for HL it's per Machine (i.e. friends can sit down at your PC and make and create characters with no trouble)... If you seriously setup a Windows Terminal Server in Application mode and put HL on it... it's still only installed on one PC at that point.

If it is installed on only the one machine.. you will not be able to enable it for group use even if you do it through a remote desktop option or some such. As only one person at a time could use it.

 

[Bloodyraven]

Hey there,

I bought Hero Lab and planning to buy the additional data packages. I'm the DM and the players are currently using an excel sheet for their characters but I think they would love to use Herolab as well. I know they won't buy the product with all the packages themselves.

I know the software comes with 2 licenses and we can buy other in other to use Herolab on other computers but it doesn't say really if it's intended for the same person or not...

Can I buy additional licenses and give them to my players so they can manage their characters with all the datapackages I would have bought so we could all use Hero Lab while gaming ?

Thanks

Hey Korlall,

As both a player and GM, I find Hero Labs an incredible tool. I have all the add ons for Pathfinder, and my group contributes a small token when new data is available. People email me the changes at level up, and I print to a PDF or output the statblock into Dropbox, and a few tech savvy players are using their Mac iPads to play with the herolab sheets (which allow you to self edit live, during play, and even upload the changes back to a central database like Dropbox).

This way, all players and the GM (if not my campaign), can see the new updated sheets. Yes, it requires time on my part, but it allows for one point person using the system. People can still access their own books ($40+ for some core material per book), and then email the changes. Or, conversely, have people show up early and learn to use the program themselves while you prep the gaming area.

No matter how you slice it, people will have to pay money at some point. Even if you decide to forgo the system and use books, only one person can take said book home. Only one person can read the book at a time. It comes down to personal preference. Do you, as a player want to invest all that money into hard copy books and lug them everywhere, or do you want to bring a laptop/have a computer with all the data? Wolflair, myself, nobody can dictate what you do but yourself.

I hope you enjoy the system for what it is, a great resource tool…I do!

 

[ChrisRevocateur]

If you're legitimately purchasing a Windows Server, and the CALS for it... Hero Lab is a bargain in comparison.

Actually you don't necessarily have to use Windows Server, as Hero Lab works perfectly in Linux using WINE. Realm Works still doesn't work, and that's something that might force me to use Windows Server for such a thing, but hopefully I can figure out the settings necessary to make it work.

Anyway, as for the licensing thing, I can understand limiting it to one person per license at a time. If I wanted more than 4 licenses though, I would normally have to buy another FULL license and all the add-ons, the secondary license for that full license, and one tertiary license. That would provide me the 7 licenses needed for 6 thin clients and a workstation that are only accessible while at my home, gaming with me, but I'd also have to shell out as if I was two completely separate people that would be using Hero Lab in different places at the same time. Considering the situation would NOT end up with me being able to use Hero Lab in two places at once, it's a special condition not usual to their regular customer, I'm wondering if there's a way that I wouldn't have to pay for another FULL license, and can get a few extra "extended" licenses. I can understand if that's not possible, I'd just be disappointed, and might not be able to afford setting up my concept, at least not at this point.

 

[Colen]

So, just to make sure I've got this clear: If I were to set up a server with remote desktop or an application server connected to 6 thin clients, one each for players, and a full workstation for the GM, I would need 7 licenses, even though the program is running technically on only one machine?

I've had this idea for the ultimate electronically aided RPG game room in my head for a while, and now that a question like this is coming up, even though my concept is FAR from being birthed (need a better job before I can get the capital to even get a server machine in the first place), I should ask this question and see if my idea is squashed from the start.

I don't actually know the answer to this, as I don't know enough about. It's going to depend on how the thin clients work - are they using remote desktop to connect to a central server? If so, everything is running off one computer, and so you'd only need one license.

 

[liz]

So, I think I was using it correctly... (I stopped using HL because we don't use Pathfinder anymore)

I have all four licenses - the two I got when I purchased HL, and the additional two for $10 each. I bought nearly all the PF datasets.

I kept one copy on my "main" computer that I did the majority of the editing on (let's face it, nothing beats a real keyboard and mouse), and one on my laptop that I used when I ran the game session - Tactical Console rocks!

I also had one each on two "side" machines that players could go up to during breaks or during downtime and play around with their characters, check requirements for prestige classes, plan out feat progressions, print extra character sheets, make updates, and the like.

I would sync all the character portfolios manually when needed.

I had always assumed this was legal, since all computers were owned by me, and only one person at a time was ever using each licence. Was I good?

That sounds like a great set-up, and from what you're describing it falls within the bounds of our license agreement.

 

[Fuzzy]

The other great thing about this is that you can use remote desktop from android devices. The only complication comes from changes being made to the same portfolio by multiple parties (the DM and the player both having the same portfolio open). The DM makes changes while the player has it open, and the other won't see the changes. Player then makes their own changes, and hit save, and they've just overwritten the DM's changes. Proper handling of this would require HL to monitor the file(s) it has open for changes, and when it detects a change, offer a popup to reopen the file from disk. This would provide almost on the fly syncing of multiple Hero Lab instances run from the same install (or even different installs, if the file stores are shared).

(Still makes me wish they'd opted to make a web based UI instead of the iPad interface)

 

[Fuzzy]

Also, what would be great, is if you could open multiple Portfolio files at once. Currently, if you DO try to do as mentioned above, and share the portfolio files, the DM has the choice of having to open and close each character when looking for something, or rolling the entire party into a single portfolio. The problem with this, is that if it is all one portfolio, you end up with the whole parties characters in it, so every player can see each other's sheets as well. That's all well and good, but it also means the encounter builder's npcs will be shared with all players too. That's not so good.

My proposed solution would be to have a .par (party file) that was basically a listing of multiple .por files. When a .par file is opened, if will subsequently import each associated .por into the running database, adding a field on each hero as to which .por it came from (for saving and file update monitoring). When creating a new hero, either singularly or from the encounter builder), it would ask which open .por to add it to.

The DM, in this case, could have her own .por file that they use to hold the recurring npc's, and one to use as a temporary holding space for encounters. They would have a .par that pointed to both of these, as well as each player's .por file. This would allow everyone to be in the same interface for the DM, and allow him to utilize the full tactical console. Each player would only open up their own .por file, which would contain their character, as well as any hirelings/familiars/mounts/eidelons/etc they control.

These changes do not sound overly difficult, as they would basically be high level automation of functions already in the program (importing .por files to the open one). The file monitoring would be a new feature to be coded, but I'm not sure it would be all that difficult. The code for reloading a por file is already there, as used from the Test feature in the editor. I think these few changes would greatly aid in the usability of HL at the tableside.

(let me know if any of this breaks something, as I'm writing this at 2:30 in the morning, fueled by munchies and monster)...

 

[RavenX]

As the GM for my group, I have Hero Lab and most of the licenses for the software on my personal computers (both my laptop and desktop). We are a shared book group, the players purchase the books which sit on my shelf and they are permitted to reference them at game meetings, they get passed around and read during the lul times in the game such as lunch or dinner breaks and the players all get to see their newest game options). When my players work on a character from the books, they have a blank handwritten sheet to work with (Which is the only thing you can legally photocopy from the core book). They work on their character on the handwritten sheet as a kind of rough draft. Once they're finished, I take that sheet and add the data into hero lab myself during a break period such a lunch or dinner and then print their sheet for them out of hero lab. I have two players that own hero lab licenses (one of which I paid for a full license at the time with all the available pathfinder content as a birthday gift to him). I am not able to do this with all my players, however. If they wish to own Hero Lab it comes out of their own pocket. I keep all the character sheets in the notebook that I keep my GM notes in anyway so that I don't have to reprint if they lose it. If they want a reprint I give them a USB thumb drive with the pdf documents for their character and send them off to the photocopy store to print one. I use hero lab to track combat things, spells used, resources used, etc. as I run the actual game. The encounter builder gets used heavily at my table. If someone wants something from supplemental books for their character I can add it through my computer so we don't worry about everyone having hero lab in the group. My main reason for using hero lab is the tactical console as a GM (it saves me a lot of time to just use the tactical console to track hit points, psionic power points, etc.).

As an addendum: One other thing my players will do is purchase pdf copies of the books from paizo. I get a hard copy and they usually get pdfs. This simplifies the process as I typically read the books faster and often point out things that they are likely to be interested in. One of my players is a divine character player, and one leans toward martial characters. For them it is easy for me to point out options ideal for the characters they like to play.

 

[ChrisRevocateur]

I don't actually know the answer to this, as I don't know enough about. It's going to depend on how the thin clients work - are they using remote desktop to connect to a central server? If so, everything is running off one computer, and so you'd only need one license.

Well, my original idea was to virtualize 6 workstations for the thin clients to use, and then use terminal services to create an application server. I don't NEED full virtualized workstations though, and could work with just remote desktop, though as I understand it (taking a Windows Server class right now) they pretty much work the same way, an application server just serves the program though, instead of a whole desktop.