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Binder Class Vestiges - Is this the best way

R

rogue_jm

Member
I have owned Hero Lab for a while but real life has kept me from getting into as much as I wanted. Now I have some time to work on it. At the moment I am trying to add the Binder class from The Tome of Magic. I have added the class, set up most the class abilities, and added all of the feats relating to the class (although I have not yet added scripting to them all).

For now the question I have is with regards to Vestiges and how to handle them. For those that do not know the class, the full write up is here: http://dndtools.eu/classes/binder/).

The way I have tackled the vestiges is to treat them as spells. The class is set up like a wizard using a spell book (can add the vestiges they know to the spell book; renamed Vestige Seals Known) and the prepared spells to reflect the vestiges currently bound. I intend to work on scripts to then apply the appropriate adjustments/abilities when the vestige is prepared. Because of the nature of the levels and number of vestiges that can be bound the spell system is not a perfect fit as a Binder can bind vestiges of any level up to their maximum vestige level, not necessarily so many of any given level. To reflect this I have set all vestiges up as 0-level spells, and used the 0-level spell progression to control the number of vestiges bound. I intend to add a script to advise if any vestige is above the appropriate level.

To turn this into a question, and not a seminar, I was wondering if this is the best way to handle, or is there other mechanics in place that would work better?

Also, as an aside, in the spell Things it has First as a level option rather than 0-9; what exactly is this for?

Thanks in advance to anyone able to clarify whether I am on the right track or not with this.
 
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rogue_jm said:
I have owned Hero Lab for a while but real life has kept me from getting into as much as I wanted. Now I have some time to work on it. At the moment I am trying to add the Binder class from The Tome of Magic. I have added the class, set up most the class abilities, and added all of the feats relating to the class (although I have not yet added scripting to them all).

For now the question I have is with regards to Vestiges and how to handle them. For those that do not know the class, the full write up is here: http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Binder_(3.5e_Class).
Click to expand...
I tried to follow the link but its broken but I think I found the class anyways (I think) but I can't find anything called vestiges actually. :(

Another option you could look into is using a "Configurable" which you would then bootstrap to the class. Then you would make your "vestiges" on the "R Cust Special" that gets linked to the "Configurable". This then would create a whole new "tab" when you added the class and allow a new place to select your Vestiges.

Its another thought is all.

rogue_jm said:
Also, as an aside, in the spell Things it has First as a level option rather than 0-9; what exactly is this for?
Click to expand...
Not sure really. I assume its something that carried over from d20 files and has just been left. Aaron/Mathias would really have to answer what that does....
 
My apologies, rushed to find the binder link when I originally posted and gave a link to the wrong one. The one linked to is not the Binder from Tome of Magic, but here is the correct one http://dndtools.eu/classes/binder/ .

Thanks for the feedback. I have been delving through all of the tutorials I can find and not found much on the Configurable and R Cust Special. Will have a look at some of the current entries and see if I can make sense of.

My next hurdle is the pact augmentation, from what I have seen so far, your advice may be the way to handle that. Will keep working through and see how I go.
 
If you do get this working I'd be very interested in getting my hands on it! Ran a Binder once and enjoyed it, but haven't even thought about the class in a long while. It'd be great to have a Pathfinder version in HL!
 
More than happy to pass it on, once I manage to get it working. It's my first major delve into the editor, and I am just hoping I haven't picked something too difficult to start with.

At this stage I am recreating as close to the 3.5 version as I can, with just the mandatory PF conversions. I have a couple of ideas on updating fully to PF (filling in blank levels and capstone abilities, for example), but figured the basics were the way to go and then others could modify based on their preferences once done. You never know, discussion here may fill in the blanks.

At this stage I have all vestiges from the ToM in place and all class abilities, as well as associated feats. Really just scripting to be done now, although scripting for the vestiges will be interesting.
 
Okay, I have been slowly working on this. I have the vestiges working fairly well as far as selection goes and have all other class abilities in place. I am, however, having trouble working out how to implement the following class ability:

Pact Augmentation (Su): Beginning at 2nd level, you can draw additional power from the vestiges you bind. As long as you are bound to at least one vestige, you can choose one ability from the following list. Each time you rebind a vestige, you also reselect your pact augmentation ability.
As you attain higher levels, you can make additional selections from the list. You gain one additional ability at 5th, 10th, 16th, and 20th level (to a maximum of five selections at 20th level). You can choose a single ability multiple times, and their effects stack. For instance, at 16th level you could choose bonus hit points twice and damage reduction twice, gaining +10 hit points and damage reduction 2/—.

Pact Augmentation Abilities
+5 hit points
Energy resistance 5 (acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic)
+1 insight bonus on saving throws
Damage reduction 1/—
+1 insight bonus to Armor Class
+1 insight bonus on attack rolls
+1 insight bonus on damage rolls
+2 insight bonus on initiative checks

I am able to work out how to get the class ability itself to increase as required, but am not sure how to implement the spending of the points. I have a couple of ideas on alternative implementation, but wanted a confirmation if the above is possible or not before moving on to Plan B.

Thanks in advance for anyone that is able to assist.
 
Granted I read it quickly but "Pact Augmentation Abilities" sound like any other Custom Ability like Barbarian Rage Powers or Rogue Talents. So I would build each one on the "Custom Ability" tab and have it linked to your new class. Then on your class (class tab) you can setup the number gained/levels using the "Custom Ability Count" button (note level 1 starts at 0). Then set the name of Pact Augmentation Abilities under the "Custom Ability Name" section.

Then a person just picks the abilities they want as they go up in levels.
 
I have almost finished the Pact Augmentations (see above) but have resorted to separate custom class abilities for each option and, using the Point Cost mechanism, to cover all of the potential increases. This way will work, but not as "neat" as I would have liked. The other two options I tried worked almost perfectly, except for a couple of glitches that caused issue. I am hoping there may actually be a solution to the problems I faced with the other options...

Option 1: I used the array-based menu to designate how many points were to be applied; I was able to get all of the math in Hero Lab working how it should (using the array line number as a multiplier), but I was unable to find a way to make the ability cost more than a single choice like when using the Point Cost mechanism. Can this be done via script? And if so, any insight as to how?

Option 2: I created a single ability for each option and made them non-unique so they could be used multiple times. The issue I faced here was that due to bonuses of a similar type (insight) (and energy resistance) not stacking I was unable to track how many times the class ability was selected so could not account for multiples of the same choice. I tried xCount and xIndex, (the only things I found may have a chance of working) but was unable to implement. Am I looking in the right direction for this? And if so, any insight would be appreciated.
** Ignore this one. I got it to work, but xIndex cannot differentiate between different custom class abilities (Unless someone has another idea)**
 
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rogue_jm said:
The issue I faced here was that due to bonuses of a similar type (insight) (and energy resistance) not stacking I was unable to track how many times the class ability was selected
Click to expand...
This reason would be likely because you used a macro with built in stacking logic but you can just script around that but its a little bit of work. The idea is you need a single location to do your script instead of multiple.

So lets use "+1 insight bonus on saving throws" as the example. Create a new Thing on the "Ability" tab and give it a name same as the above pack. Give it a new unique ID and set its Uniqueness to "Unique". Then on it do the following script at Pre-Levels/10000:
Code: 
~ Count the number of times this Custom Ability (Pack) was added to the hero.
~ Please replace XXXX with the Unique ID of your Custom Ability
field[abValue].value += hero.tagcount[Ability.XXXXXX]
~ Give bonus to all saves
#applybonus[BonInsight,hero.child[svAll],field[abValue].value]
Make sure "Show in Specials List?" is NOT check marked.

Then Test Now! on it and when done your going to bootstrap this new Ability to the Custom Ability. So go to the Custom Ability tab and click on the +1 save pack Thing. In the right top corner is the blue button "Bootstraps" click on and it add a new one. In the text area next to "Choose" type in the Unique ID of the "Ability" Thing you created above.

Now then remove the script on the Custom Ability as instead it will run off the Ability Thing helper we just created. So you see when you add the Custom Ability (ie Pack) now the helper Thing comes along but will only ever be added once to the hero. So even if you pick the same pack 5 times only one Ability Thing gets added and it count's up the total and adds it to the hero one time.
 
Awesome, Shadow. Thank you. Will work on that now and see how we go.

It's coming along, but am sure to have a few more questions before I'm done. :o.
 
rogue_jm said:
It's coming along, but am sure to have a few more questions before I'm done. :o.
Click to expand...
No problem and glade its coming along. The editor can be very overwhelming at first but once you get use to the terms and standards you can make things pretty quickly. Personally I find it "fun" to do stuff in the editor actually. Its pretty cool to see my players using features and stuff I have added for my houserules data set. :)

Anyways keep at it as it really does get easier...
 
Okay, finally getting a chance to get back to some of this. Attached is what I have done so far with regards to the Binder. At this stage it has not been Pathfinderized, other than necessities such as skills, HD vs. BAB, etc.

All feats are in place, with only a little scripting still to be done.

The class is up and running with all 1st level vestiges in place and almost entirely scripted, just a specific issue or two yet to resolve.

I would appreciative of anyone that would like to take look at it and offer feedback and/or suggestions. :o

PS. Just made some changes to one of the Vestiges abilities. Note that the 1st file included in the attached zip file piggy backs off the 3.5 Edition source in the Community files. If you do not have the Community files installed it will bomb. Can supply amended 1st file if required.
 
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Actually got a bit of time to spend on this over the week. Updated file attached with most of the vestiges no up and running. Thoughts, comments, much appreciated.
 
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I've got the file downloaded, and plan to play around with the class soon(ish). I'll let you know my thoughts as soon as one that's worth a flip enters my head. :D
 
Much appreciated. I have already come across a couple of issues, which I have now resolved for the next upload. I just have two more vestiges to finish and they are all done and 99% scripted - just a couple of specific issues I think I have almost worked out.

Very interested in bug reports (once I get the next version up especially, probably tomorrow night) and feedback on the implementation.
 
Finished. At least that part. The Binder class and all vestiges are now operational. Only a couple of scripts to finish off, but they are going to take me a while to work out. There is more than enough there though to make if functional.

Next step will be to finish couple of class ability scripts, script the last couple of feats, and add magic items. Will look at prestige classes once that is done.

Along with feedback on errors, big and small, I am interested in any ideas with regards to any Pathfinder-ish changes that should be done and also any ideas on archetypes for the class that would suit. I am thinking some of the prestige classes may actually work better as archetypes.

Anyway, other than fixes, I'm pretty happy with the final result so far, and hope others may enjoy as well.

PS Have included a modified 1st file in case user does not have the Community pack installed. Just overwrite 1st file from the binder archive.
 
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In a moment of concern about upsetting any IP gods, I removed it from the post. Quite happy to send directly if you like.
I was pretty happy with the end result, although I did not continue work on it as I decided to use my learning from this and do the PF version of the Binder from Radiance House. Alas life has stopped me from progressing with it at this stage.
 
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