Any recent updates on the progress of Content Market

[dungeonguru]

Not censoring. FB is a marketing tool. Would you call it censorship if someone wrote a "review" on a bill board and the bill board ad was replaced?

That's a mixed and bad example. You should be thinking more about Yelp! or maybe the BBB (better busines bureau) or bad amazon reviews. The only negative reviews that should be deleted are the ones that are obviously faked or sourced from a competitor. Otherwise, the product owner should reply and ask what the problem is and ask for the customer to improve their score or review.

That's called simple public relations and customer service.

Ignoring the customer and deleting negative feedback is just a horrible and unethical way to do business. BJ, Rone and others try to provide feedback when these threads get heated enough, so I'm not accusing LW of being unethical, just giving an example of what I consider to be unethical. BJ took down the "CM Coming in 2016" snipped on the product page based on feedback at one point, which points that we can have a civil dialogue and help both the customer be happy and help LW do better.

My personal opinion is that they could do better with providing updates. I didn't see many updates about anything that happened at GenCon other than some booth info on facebook, I would have liked to see any stories even if it was only to say that one of the LW folks in attendance had a great time at a PF2 playtest or finding a new pub in downtown Indy.

 

[Jamz]

I did a quick stop at the LW booth, mostly to look at the HLO for PlayTest (and ended up buying it as it looked pretty complete for Playtest AND it rolls into full PF2 when it comes out, as it's really Early Access)

I did ask the "Content Market" question but taking it all with a grain of salt, all I was told was basically what we all know and that is it's in Paizo's hand and if Paizo doesn't deliver there end by November there would be H-E-Double hockey sticks to pay...

...maybe I should have stopped over at Paizo and see if they needed some free developer help...setting up this integration point isn't rocket science these days...

 

[Toblakai]

That's a mixed and bad example. You should be thinking more about Yelp! or maybe the BBB (better busines bureau) or bad amazon reviews. The only negative reviews that should be deleted are the ones that are obviously faked or sourced from a competitor. Otherwise, the product owner should reply and ask what the problem is and ask for the customer to improve their score or review.

That's called simple public relations and customer service.

Ignoring the customer and deleting negative feedback is just a horrible and unethical way to do business. BJ, Rone and others try to provide feedback when these threads get heated enough, so I'm not accusing LW of being unethical, just giving an example of what I consider to be unethical. BJ took down the "CM Coming in 2016" snipped on the product page based on feedback at one point, which points that we can have a civil dialogue and help both the customer be happy and help LW do better.

My personal opinion is that they could do better with providing updates. I didn't see many updates about anything that happened at GenCon other than some booth info on facebook, I would have liked to see any stories even if it was only to say that one of the LW folks in attendance had a great time at a PF2 playtest or finding a new pub in downtown Indy.

Companies routinely remove comments on FB. It is no where near like reviews on Amazon. Amazon could care less if product XYZ got a negative review.

Forums are generally an open discussion area and most companies don't moderate them much, though some do.

FB is marketing platform for businesses. Do you think ABC would allow someone to run adds saying how horrible ABC is?

Here is a guide for companies on how to moderate your FB posts:
Guide
You can hide negative posts so only the poster and the posters friends can see it so probably better than deleting.

 

[dungeonguru]

FB is marketing platform for businesses. Do you think ABC would allow someone to run adds saying how horrible ABC is?

Just because FB allows you to do it doesn't mean it's OK. My microwave allows me to put tin foil and forks in it, but I don't think it's a good idea. Bad ideas eventually come back to hurt you. FB condoned a lot of bad practices, or you could almost say they colluded with bad people and now FB has a lot of negative press they're fighting for allowing people to behave poorly using their services.

ABC and other stations sell their ad time and as a business they also have the right to refuse service. However, they can't remove an ad I buy on NBC or Fox badmouthing them without suing me, which of course being media giants they could and probably would, but then that points out the negativity via public records and could backfire worse than a single bad review running its course or simply being addressed.

 

[Toblakai]

Just because FB allows you to do it doesn't mean it's OK. My microwave allows me to put tin foil and forks in it, but I don't think it's a good idea. Bad ideas eventually come back to hurt you. FB condoned a lot of bad practices, or you could almost say they colluded with bad people and now FB has a lot of negative press they're fighting for allowing people to behave poorly using their services.

ABC and other stations sell their ad time and as a business they also have the right to refuse service. However, they can't remove an ad I buy on NBC or Fox badmouthing them without suing me, which of course being media giants they could and probably would, but then that points out the negativity via public records and could backfire worse than a single bad review running its course or simply being addressed.

Companies put themselves on FB for advertisement. It is "their" page, some businesses only have a FB page and not a website. It is their right to control it and it would be very irresponsible of them to allow negative posts on their site. We can agree to disagree here I guess, but I suspect you will not find many major companies on FB that does not remove/hide posts.

 

[Asandir]

I did a quick stop at the LW booth, mostly to look at the HLO for PlayTest (and ended up buying it as it looked pretty complete for Playtest AND it rolls into full PF2 when it comes out, as it's really Early Access)

I did ask the "Content Market" question but taking it all with a grain of salt, all I was told was basically what we all know and that is it's in Paizo's hand and if Paizo doesn't deliver there end by November there would be H-E-Double hockey sticks to pay...

Sigh, now November perhaps?

 

[kbs666]

Companies put themselves on FB for advertisement. It is "their" page, some businesses only have a FB page and not a website. It is their right to control it and it would be very irresponsible of them to allow negative posts on their site. We can agree to disagree here I guess, but I suspect you will not find many major companies on FB that does not remove/hide posts.

Every company hides or deletes some posts. Trolling posts, hate speech, foul language, ads, porn. that type of stuff. A company that deletes negative comments is going down a very bad road. Because those frustrate customers will simply go somewhere else and be even angrier. Better to respond and try and find a solution to why they are unhappy. Then later potential customers see a responsive company working to fix problems engaged with their customers. And trust me now a days people know how to use Google and search more than FB before buying stuff. they will find where ever those griping customers go once the comments are deleted from the official FB page.

 

[Toblakai]

Every company hides or deletes some posts. Trolling posts, hate speech, foul language, ads, porn. that type of stuff. A company that deletes negative comments is going down a very bad road. Because those frustrate customers will simply go somewhere else and be even angrier. Better to respond and try and find a solution to why they are unhappy. Then later potential customers see a responsive company working to fix problems engaged with their customers. And trust me now a days people know how to use Google and search more than FB before buying stuff. they will find where ever those griping customers go once the comments are deleted from the official FB page.

This is where hiding the comment is ingenious. The poster does not know it is hidden unless they look for it while in incognito mode.

There are posters on this board that complain about slow roll out of features/etc but they are incredibly negative in the way they do it, if these posts are on facebook they really should be removed.

But if anyone is researching a product to decide whether to purchase it or not they should not go to just the products site for this research (or FB) they should look else where.

 

[meek75]

The FB page I frequent is not run by LWD. I'm pretty sure it is a fan made group with 700+ members. BJ is a member and sometimes posts short replies. Also, one option for LWD would be to do better. People are sometimes negative for good reason.

 

[Toblakai]

The FB page I frequent is not run by LWD. I'm pretty sure it is a fan made group with 700+ members. BJ is a member and sometimes posts short replies. Also, one option for LWD would be to do better. People are sometimes negative for good reason.

This is where you should research a product, independent sites.

 

[kbs666]

This is where hiding the comment is ingenious. The poster does not know it is hidden unless they look for it while in incognito mode.

There are posters on this board that complain about slow roll out of features/etc but they are incredibly negative in the way they do it, if these posts are on facebook they really should be removed.

But if anyone is researching a product to decide whether to purchase it or not they should not go to just the products site for this research (or FB) they should look else where.

You think people don't do that? You think people don't have rl friends that they aren't FB friends with? That route is sure to get a company in huge trouble. It is not ingenious. It is sure to just make the customer even angrier.

As to people on the forum being "incredibly" negative. I stood up for LWD for a long time. I bought RW in 2015, IIRC, and at the time updates and new features were rolling out at a steady pace. Then roughly Fall of 2016 everything became about rolling out the CM and updates and new features ground to a halt as did any real communication from LWD. For a long time after that I still stood up for them. I knew what they were doing was going to be hard but when all communication stopped and they said they couldn't make any progress because of Paizo and bug reports were being completely ignored and despite the fact there was nothing they could reasonably be doing on the CM front we still got no bug fixes and no new features I soured on LWD. Then they announced HLO which clearly was going to take the focus of their web technology guy(s) away from working with Paizo to get the CM working to that. I bit my tongue because clearly they must be having a money crunch. But after another year almost and when people around here have to literally beg for any scrap of info they get a huffy "nothing new so we can't see why we should bother with telling you anything." I had finally had enough.

People aren't being "incredibly" negative. Some of them are backers who are waiting for rewards for years that should have been delivered at least 6 months ago, that was the last time BJ promised them. Some are fans of the project who want it to succeed, in my case I made videos to evangelize it because Liz asked the community to do so, I'd still be doing so if there was anything new to show people. I doubt any of the forum regulars doesn't truly love the project and have many hundreds if not thousands of hours of our creativity wrapped up in it. We just want it to be better because it is so clearly partially finished in so many frustrating ways and it falls further and further behind technologically every day.

 

[evildmguy]

You think people don't do that? You think people don't have rl friends that they aren't FB friends with? That route is sure to get a company in huge trouble. It is not ingenious. It is sure to just make the customer even angrier.

As to people on the forum being "incredibly" negative. I stood up for LWD for a long time. I bought RW in 2015, IIRC, and at the time updates and new features were rolling out at a steady pace. Then roughly Fall of 2016 everything became about rolling out the CM and updates and new features ground to a halt as did any real communication from LWD. For a long time after that I still stood up for them. I knew what they were doing was going to be hard but when all communication stopped and they said they couldn't make any progress because of Paizo and bug reports were being completely ignored and despite the fact there was nothing they could reasonably be doing on the CM front we still got no bug fixes and no new features I soured on LWD. Then they announced HLO which clearly was going to take the focus of their web technology guy(s) away from working with Paizo to get the CM working to that. I bit my tongue because clearly they must be having a money crunch. But after another year almost and when people around here have to literally beg for any scrap of info they get a huffy "nothing new so we can't see why we should bother with telling you anything." I had finally had enough.

People aren't being "incredibly" negative. Some of them are backers who are waiting for rewards for years that should have been delivered at least 6 months ago, that was the last time BJ promised them. Some are fans of the project who want it to succeed, in my case I made videos to evangelize it because Liz asked the community to do so, I'd still be doing so if there was anything new to show people. I doubt any of the forum regulars doesn't truly love the project and have many hundreds if not thousands of hours of our creativity wrapped up in it. We just want it to be better because it is so clearly partially finished in so many frustrating ways and it falls further and further behind technologically every day.

Sadly this is mostly me. I still suggest LWD products to people but am disappointed at HLO and that nothing new has been done on RW. As soon as Paizo held them up, they should have had, or by now come up with, a new plan to do as much as they can without Paizo.

Mainly, I stay away and don't say much, waiting to see what will happen. As I have said in other posts, though, RW was not written for the way I run a game and while it is incredibly useful for prep work, I still find it slow compared to writing things down. I think the quick entry was the best thing keeping me coming back and using RW.

I'm bummed about it but still have the tiny shred of hope that something will eventually happen.

 

[Toblakai]

You think people don't do that? You think people don't have rl friends that they aren't FB friends with? That route is sure to get a company in huge trouble. It is not ingenious. It is sure to just make the customer even angrier.

As to people on the forum being "incredibly" negative. I stood up for LWD for a long time. I bought RW in 2015, IIRC, and at the time updates and new features were rolling out at a steady pace. Then roughly Fall of 2016 everything became about rolling out the CM and updates and new features ground to a halt as did any real communication from LWD. For a long time after that I still stood up for them. I knew what they were doing was going to be hard but when all communication stopped and they said they couldn't make any progress because of Paizo and bug reports were being completely ignored and despite the fact there was nothing they could reasonably be doing on the CM front we still got no bug fixes and no new features I soured on LWD. Then they announced HLO which clearly was going to take the focus of their web technology guy(s) away from working with Paizo to get the CM working to that. I bit my tongue because clearly they must be having a money crunch. But after another year almost and when people around here have to literally beg for any scrap of info they get a huffy "nothing new so we can't see why we should bother with telling you anything." I had finally had enough.

People aren't being "incredibly" negative. Some of them are backers who are waiting for rewards for years that should have been delivered at least 6 months ago, that was the last time BJ promised them. Some are fans of the project who want it to succeed, in my case I made videos to evangelize it because Liz asked the community to do so, I'd still be doing so if there was anything new to show people. I doubt any of the forum regulars doesn't truly love the project and have many hundreds if not thousands of hours of our creativity wrapped up in it. We just want it to be better because it is so clearly partially finished in so many frustrating ways and it falls further and further behind technologically every day.

I have never looked at a site in incognito mode to see if my posts were visible nor have I asked a friend too look, or had a friend ask me to. I suspect this is very uncommon thing to have happen.

I have no issue with being upset about not getting the features of the product done. I am not a kickstarter backer, I feel for the kickstater backers, I am waiting on two kickstarters to finish up after years of delays (OOTS being the oldest) but I don't post disparaging remarks about the people or the company like I see here on these forums.

It would be nice if there were more updates, but it's a damned if you do and damned if you don't thing there.

The loss of veteran developers probably really hurt LWD. I have been on projects where we have lost developers, it sucks because you spend most of your time training up the new hires on the code base and process/etc and not much on getting stuff done. C++ code base like HLC takes the longest to get someone up to speed too, web based stuff like HLO will be easier because the frameworks are known by many.

 

[Maidhc O Casain]

You think people don't do that? You think people don't have rl friends that they aren't FB friends with? That route is sure to get a company in huge trouble. It is not ingenious. It is sure to just make the customer even angrier.

As to people on the forum being "incredibly" negative. I stood up for LWD for a long time. I bought RW in 2015, IIRC, and at the time updates and new features were rolling out at a steady pace. Then roughly Fall of 2016 everything became about rolling out the CM and updates and new features ground to a halt as did any real communication from LWD. For a long time after that I still stood up for them. I knew what they were doing was going to be hard but when all communication stopped and they said they couldn't make any progress because of Paizo and bug reports were being completely ignored and despite the fact there was nothing they could reasonably be doing on the CM front we still got no bug fixes and no new features I soured on LWD. Then they announced HLO which clearly was going to take the focus of their web technology guy(s) away from working with Paizo to get the CM working to that. I bit my tongue because clearly they must be having a money crunch. But after another year almost and when people around here have to literally beg for any scrap of info they get a huffy "nothing new so we can't see why we should bother with telling you anything." I had finally had enough.

People aren't being "incredibly" negative. Some of them are backers who are waiting for rewards for years that should have been delivered at least 6 months ago, that was the last time BJ promised them. Some are fans of the project who want it to succeed, in my case I made videos to evangelize it because Liz asked the community to do so, I'd still be doing so if there was anything new to show people. I doubt any of the forum regulars doesn't truly love the project and have many hundreds if not thousands of hours of our creativity wrapped up in it. We just want it to be better because it is so clearly partially finished in so many frustrating ways and it falls further and further behind technologically every day.

Well and fairly stated!

 

[jtnlange]

While I was not a backer at the time, I fell in love with the program at Gen-Con a few years back. Finally pulled the trigger and purchased it. I have not regretted it. I understand the frustration alot of people here have and I truly hope it will get resolved. As far as the CM is concerned if it is only PF or D&D then I am not at all the interested as I do not play those games. If it will include games like Shadowrun/Aces & Eights/ Legend of the Five Rings then OK. otherwise I will go ahead and enter it myself and move on. Just my $.02.

Have a great day everyone

Trevor L.
Shadowrun has a different definition of fair than a game like D&D. In D&D fair means not throwing the PC's up against things they can't beat. In Shadowrun fair is if you piss off the dude with the gauss rifle you eat a gauss rifle - ShadowcatX

 

[kbs666]

There is a small chance for Shadowrun as LWD does produce HLC for that. Aces & Eights and Lot5R's both seem very unlikely. You might want to ask for RW content over on the Shadowrun forums.

BTW do you intend to switch over to the FFG version of Lot5R's rpg when that releases?

 

[jtnlange]

not to derail this but not really. I will probably get it for the fluff, but I am not a big specialty dice guy. I play the FFG Star Wars and i am not a big fan of it. I am a concrete results guy. I roll the dice and compare for results. I feel it is up to me and the GM to play the scene out from that. I.E. did it just make it or fail miserably or something like that. What do you think of it?

You can email me or IM me if you want to continue this I don't want to get way off topic here

Thanks

Trevor L.
jtnlange@hotmail.com

P.S. I am also working on entering Shadowrun but would be nice to have some pre made stuff.

 

[Tharmiones]

Looks like recent complains are piling up.

So let me predict what will happen next:
There will be a statement from <enter random LWD employee here> that they currently do not have much news but we shall expect to see some <great/exciting/lengthy or similar or combination of these> in the next <days/weeks/until random date generated by the none existing customer Calendar>.

This will calm down the emotions and there will be thank you posts all over the place just because of this useless post. The announced timeframe/date will pass by with no information posted. Weeks will pass by and the complains will start to pile up again, starting this circle on square one again.

Did I miss something from how it went the last times?

*Yawn*
Been there done that, even got the T-Shirt. Wore a hole in it and now use it as a duster.
*Yawn*

Three months and still true. *goes back to sleep*

 

[Azgulor]

While I was not a backer at the time, I fell in love with the program at Gen-Con a few years back. Finally pulled the trigger and purchased it. I have not regretted it. I understand the frustration alot of people here have and I truly hope it will get resolved. As far as the CM is concerned if it is only PF or D&D then I am not at all the interested as I do not play those games. If it will include games like Shadowrun/Aces & Eights/ Legend of the Five Rings then OK. otherwise I will go ahead and enter it myself and move on. Just my $.02.
]

I'm in a similar boat. While I was/am a HLC user (and now HLO for Starfinder), I chose not to back the Kickstarter. Realm Works has transformed my games. I can appreciate people wanting certain features, but I've continued to see the product improve. Still a LWD & Realms Works fan.

 

[zandraxon]

I'm in a similar boat. While I was/am a HLC user (and now HLO for Starfinder), I chose not to back the Kickstarter. Realm Works has transformed my games. I can appreciate people wanting certain features, but I've continued to see the product improve. Still a LWD & Realms Works fan.

I'd like to 3rd or 4th this thought... Yes, I'd love to see the market open up, but RW has been a 100%+++ improvement in my campaign organization as well as my game days. I'm sure I'm still not, after 3 years, using some tools as intended, but I've settled into a routine that makes my sessions purr. Sure I'd love a better calendar, but I'm clear-headed enough with my critique to know that I'm never giving it up, no matter what happens in the future.