Any recent updates on the progress of Content Market

[daplunk]

My first rule of Kickstarter... don't back software development.

 

[dungeonguru]

Steering back to the original post and thread question - is anyone privy to any updates at all on Realm Works? Anyone in some sort of beta or with some inside information that would allow a wee bit of positive speculation?

FYI, I don't care about content market. I would rather see the other tools that would help with campaign management get some loving. Using RW/HL at the table has made my players very happy.

 

[meek75]

It always perplexes me to see how outraged some bakers get when a Kickstarter fails, or deadlines slip, or the original scope contracts. Even if you don't understand what KS is and how it works and are mistakenly treating it as a pre-order market (which it most definitely is not), if losing the cost of the pledge (either total loss or partial lost through delays and failures to deliver planned features), then why did you spend the money? KS projects can and will have scope changes and you can and will lose money or not get what you want if you back enough of them.

I think this is a fair point. However, I also think we are way past this just being a kick starter. I was not a part of the kick starter. I purchased the product based on what was still being promised way past the KS. The same logic applies, I should not have bought a product based on what it is planned to have later. Its just that everyone keeps saying that only the KS backers have any cause to complain, and I disagree. I was not in the KS and have owned RW for three years -- we have been blowing by promises that whole time.

I also agree with what others have said - LWD is just a frustrated by all this a we are currently. I think LWD is doing its best and I don't have a solution other than to just hang in there.

 

[kbs666]

I bought RW 3(?) years ago based exclusively on the features then available.

Anyone who buys software based on promised features is asking for trouble.

Yes, I'd like some of the planned features but as long as they maintain the cloud support and fix some existing bugs I could live with RW as is.

 

[Ckorik]

I bought RW 3(?) years ago based exclusively on the features then available.

Anyone who buys software based on promised features is asking for trouble.

Yes, I'd like some of the planned features but as long as they maintain the cloud support and fix some existing bugs I could live with RW as is.

Yes - as is I'm happy. I'd love to see more added to the program though - if the content market allows them the revenue to take this next level I'd be ecstatic.

 

[Acenoid]

I think the other features that are being pushed back though, could also help the revenue.

 

[MNBlockHead]

I think the other features that are being pushed back though, could also help the revenue.

Maybe, but not as much as the content market. Though...I suppose that many of the long-awaited players-version features would make the cloud service more attractive when it is no longer free. But even if the player versions had all the bells and whistles on the road map, if there isn't content to buy, I think it will limit to potential customer base. Far more DMs want to use or precreated content—at least as a starting point, rather than build worlds and adventures from the ground up.

 

[Tharmiones]

I guess it's as always:
I lost count on how many times I heard such things.
To be honest I've seen this "this update brings us a lot closer" to the Content Market Release" soooo often since they had already announced that they are "very close" to the release that it makes me wonder if they might have been not "very close" in the first place but more like far far away.

My bet on the potential "content" of the announcement is:
"We are almost ready for the release of the content market. We are making great progress so stay tuned for the next update in the following weeks"

I don't believe you anything until it is actually there.
@dapluk and everyone else trying to say that it's the KS backers fault that they backed a SW project on KS and failing to realize that dates can change:
If it weren't for the KS Backers RW would be not even close to what it is now, if existing at all. Projects on KS are always only financed on promises. Failing to deliver in time is almost certain BUT if something is announced as "nearly complete" with a planned Release date in six months you certainly do not expect to not even see the most basic delivery of that promised functionality not even four years later.

I've made a summary of the promised to delivered functionality last year august:
http://forums.wolflair.com/showpost.php?p=233341&postcount=73

What did change in the meantime?
"automatic change detection and resolution": Nope nothing changed.
"Customer Calendars": Nope nothing changed.
"Countent Market is called as SOON so often I lost track." Still true, this was done just again.

"GMs can share their creations through the cloud for use by others." Partly: You can finally export and yes you can share it through the cloud but that sharing is through a file exchange service not the actual content market.

"GMs can browse the work of others and integrate it into their own worlds. Imagine being able to find a pre-made encounter, or a tavern, or an entire region with adventures and NPCs. Drop it into your own world, change a few names, hook it into locations in your world, and it’s fully integrated for use. No scribbled notes. No Post-Its. No juggling between PDFs, books, and your own files. Realm Works is built from the ground up for exactly this purpose." --> Partly: The content needs to be exported that way instead of allowing you to choose what part to import.

So current plan, as far as the available information goes is:
1. Export/Import functionality Somehow DONE
2. Deliver free content DONE
3. Start to deliver Kickstarter content NOT DONE
4. Launch the Content Market NOT DONE

So even the KS Content is not even available and that's supposed to be available BEFORE the release of the Content Market.

 

[daplunk]

@dapluk and everyone else trying to say that it's the KS backers fault that they backed a SW project on KS and failing to realize that dates can change:

I think you'll find i said no such thing... Me personally having a rule against backing Kickstarters associated with software development is very different to me telling everyone else that it's their fault for backing the KS.

If I was a KS backer I would be as angry as everyone else. I'm not though. I love RW for what it already offers and simply look forward to the benefits that future updates will provide.

 

[Viking2054]

Just my opinion, but I think a lot of the blame for the delay in the content market release can be laid at the feet of the IP holders. I'm almost willing to bet that LWD thought they were close to launching the content market when some IP holder(s) brought up some scenario that LWD is now forced to take into consideration.

Is some of it LWD's fault, sure. Managed expectations has been, shall we say, lacking. But I'm not sure it would be good for them to come out once a month, or three and say to the user base that X, Y, and Z has happened which pushes the release of the content market back even further.

I guess it is simply a situation of damning LWD if they do or do not inform us. For which, in my opinion, they don't deserve.

 

[Exmortis]

Just my opinion, but I think a lot of the blame for the delay in the content market release can be laid at the feet of the IP holders. I'm almost willing to bet that LWD thought they were close to launching the content market when some IP holder(s) brought up some scenario that LWD is now forced to take into consideration.

Is some of it LWD's fault, sure. Managed expectations has been, shall we say, lacking. But I'm not sure it would be good for them to come out once a month, or three and say to the user base that X, Y, and Z has happened which pushes the release of the content market back even further.

I guess it is simply a situation of damning LWD if they do or do not inform us. For which, in my opinion, they don't deserve.

Seriously?

Yes IP holders held up RW for years...... But only a little LWD's fault.

I love RW, but I have grown despondent here, all this work towards this mystical magical fantasy of a content market has been exhausting. Especially when it has been the sole reason features I want are held up.

No, the blame falls squarely on LWD, for not managing the project, for not understanding the project.

Like reliving Vanguard all over again.

I remain hopeful that some day, before we replace pen and paper with holodecks, it will see some features I want, and even a content market. But even I can't remain positive about broken promises forever.

 

[Dark Lord Galen]

Seriously?
............. all this work towards this mystical magical fantasy of a content market has been exhausting. Especially when it has been the sole reason features I want are held up.

No, the blame falls squarely on LWD, for not managing the project, for not understanding the project.
...............
I remain hopeful that some day, before we replace pen and paper with holodecks, it will see some features I want, and even a content market. But even I can't remain positive about broken promises forever.

WELL put..
and before LWD emerges from the shadows to say, "we the lowly forum supporters, don't know all the details" "shouldn't / don't assume what you don't know" or "things are far more complex than the forum population knows" etc......

Remember, you conveniently leave out those who have been suffering WITH you and have hundreds of years of combined experience in a multitude of similar and supported job types that would understand better than you give them credit for and could in theory help from a community standpoint............

But instead, You have chosen to sail the storm alone and in silence for fear of negative critique (some warranted and some not), yet as my grandfather often told me, "silence gives consent".

 

[dachda]

Jeesh, guys, the whining about due dates is bloody annoying. If you are unhappy ask for a refund and go away. Regurgitating the same complaint over and over, has not and will not force LW to release software before they believe it is ready. So please just give it up already.

 

[Dervish]

The content market is something i must endure if i want custom calendars i am willing to shut up and let them do their work for that

 

[stuartwaring]

Jeesh, guys, the whining about due dates is bloody annoying. If you are unhappy ask for a refund and go away. Regurgitating the same complaint over and over, has not and will not force LW to release software before they believe it is ready. So please just give it up already.

I think even the most ardent supporters and cheerleaders for LWD are getting very frustrated. We have been told "close" for nearly 2 years!!! I'm sure you can see the frustrations and why people may want to vent a little.

It is getting very hard to have ones' hopes repeatedly raised and then dashed by a deafening silence.

I understand they only get one chance to roll it out and to release the CM before it is ready would be disastrous, but still this is quite disheartening.

 

[Merion]

Oh dear, I chime in with the "get this content market thing over so they can get on to features I personally want"-crowd. For me that's the web-view (with stress on view, just want to show my players stuff on any device).

I long ago learned that the CM won't be what I wanted it to be: integrated in the program itself and a source for small tidbits like NPCs, sidequest or location. Instead it will probably be modules downloadable from the website. Meh.

Having worked in software development, I agree that the main problem here is the communication. Maybe they bit off more than they can chew, but talking about "soon" all the time loses you the support of even the most die-hard fans. Instead do what has been suggested several times and just give short updates about what you did in your last week/sprint: "spent all week hunting a bug. still haven't found it", "restructured the database to integrate field X without breaking everything", "reworked the UI, looked horrible, reset everything", ...
Let people know that you ARE working, even if there's no tangible output.

But for me, I couldn't care less about the CM anymore, but I DO care about Realm Works as a tool that made my DMing so much easier!

 

[BJ]

The devs are quiet because they are working to get everything in place, such as the appropriate security measures required to be able to release content that's going to be sold. The KS backers getting their content also falls into that as the content they are receiving will also be sold to others.

We don't deny that much of the blame is ours and we've apologized for it a great deal, but we can't do anything about it other than continue to work toward the goal. When it's ready we will let you know. No amount of commentary, positive or negative, will change that.

Dervish: I laughed, thanks! If I could magically give you calendars I totally would!

 

[Greebo]

Beeing in the same situation as Dervish, I really understand your and the devs need for the content market, BJ. I argued that way more than once.

But, like many others around this forum, I beg to differ on a very important point:

but we can't do anything about it other than continue to work toward the goal. When it's ready we will let you know.

One of your most important assets are we, the users and customers. Sounds strange and slightly presumptous, I know. But the users, especially those lurking around various forums and the FB group, not only pay for your products. We are an important means of promotion also. If we are satisfied, we talk to others about it. If not, well, we do the same. If we can understand your problems and delays, will tell others also.

The devs are quiet because they are working to get everything in place, such as the appropriate security measures required to be able to release content that's going to be sold. The KS backers getting their content also falls into that as the content they are receiving will also be sold to others.

Yes, we know, and we are gratefull for it, since we all want RW to succeed and get all the features (like custom calendars and individual reveal) we are all excitedly waiting for.
But - speaking as someone with some experience in PR - we need to know it on a different level.
Therefore I have to agree with Merion, the major problem is the communication.

 

[joepacelli]

The devs are quiet because they are working to get everything in place, such as the appropriate security measures required to be able to release content that's going to be sold.

BJ I totally understand this and I wasn't trying to start a bitch session when I started the thread. I myself have been doing software development for the last 22+ years, starting with VB6 and now do C# windows services and SQL Server Database Development.

I totally understand the intricacies of proper database design of tables, indexes, views, etc.

But coming from this development world I know one of the most important things in Software Development is communication. Whether your doing 2 or 3 weeks sprints, we also did daily stand-ups.

I'm not asking for these daily updates. But just once a week or every other week give us a report.

Like Merion said:

Instead do what has been suggested several times and just give short updates about what you did in your last week/sprint: "spent all week hunting a bug. still haven't found it", "restructured the database to integrate field X without breaking everything", "reworked the UI, looked horrible, reset everything", ...

I agree your products are great and help the gaming community a lot. And current you have a very good reputation, but if GenCon comes and goes this year and the Content Market is not released, I'm not sure how long this good reputation will last.

 

[Ambush]

One of the most frustrating parts of the world of software development is the cry of all the users saying "give us updates!" As a developer, it doesn't matter how much you communicate, everyone wants more/different/less/other information. Daily updates to anyone not directly involved in a project is a joke, and even sprint updates to those not invested is a waste. It's a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation. I'm stoked to already have the things that I have from RW, and I'll wait until the rest gets done. I KS'd an awesome project that has made my DM'ing life so much better than it was, and I thank you.