Achtung! Cthulhu datafile

[zarlor]

For the Mythos part, you might consider simply adding a Mythos skill as a workaround, rather than trying to force it into the Knowledge mechanic. You could also post a new thread here with "BUG:" in the title to let the Lone Wolf folks know about that particular issue. It might get lost in this thread so they may not see it. Plus they could let us know if it's not actually a bug but just some mechanic we're missing that way, i would guess.

The Skill die or d4 thing I had to do 2 Hindrances to cover it. It seems the most common method used in Hero Lab for a lot of that kind of stuff (think Half-Elves where you have 2 versions, one with Agility and one with a Free Edge.) The idea with using the Hindrance to bootstrap the skill bonus, though, is so you can not worry about placing that mechanic on the book it all (since the book makes it only temporary while you have it). In that sense having the sanity loss in the Hindrance is just fine as well because curing it is likely just going to be a Permanent modifier to the derived trait that you add in anyway. So I'd leave all of those mechanics in the Hindrance rather than on the tomes and then maybe put a note in the tome descriptions about adding the Hindrance.

So, yes, I agree that sanity and the knowledge/skill/hidden-AB gain should be in a Hindrance and the spells themselves linked to the book.

 

[Endtransmission]

I added the Knowledge issue to one of the stickied threads about open issues, so we'll see if it gets picked up/replied to there

The book and skill changes were split apart this morning and it seems to be working ok so far. The sanity loss is in as an injury as I don't know where it will come from in future books and wanted to make it more generic.

I've a couple of little bits to clean up, then it'll be ready for some limited public testing

 

[Endtransmission]

Ooh trying to get this book and the associated spells into Hero Lab is starting to hurt my head.

The tomes of magic need to add new spells to the character via bootstrapping, which means I need to add an arcane background to show the Powers tab and get rid of the errors. In order to group the Mythos powers together and disallow the existing powers, I need to create a new Arcane Background. To prevent people having to add the background manually, I bootstrapped it to everyone in the setting so that anyone can cast spells, which seems to be how the adventures are going. All good so far

While building some of the NPCs in the first adventure book, I've encountered a slight flaw in the whole logic... the Savage Worlds setting only allows one Arcane Background, which would normally be fine because 99% of the characters will not (at this point in time anyway) have access to any of the other arcane backgrounds. Unfortunately one of the NPCs needs to have the skill Faith, which is (as far as I can see) linked to Arcane Background (Miracles) as well as some of the Mythos powers via the book.

I also know that one of the books coming from the kickstarter allows super powers to be mixed into the setting as well, so basically I need to try and work out how to have two arcane backgrounds running on one character. Tricky!

 

[zarlor]

Well, for the Faith issue, by the rules you do NOT need to have an AB to have the relavent skill for that AB. Currently Hero Lab has those hidden by default unless the associated AB is taken, however. I've requested that be fixed, however the only way around it right now is to instead add skFaith on the Preclude tab in the Editor then add a new skACFaith skill copied from skFaith, if you like, but remove the Container Req. on it if you do that, so it will no longer be hidden.

 

[jbearwillis]

There is a way to have more then one background, but it is a lot of work. I have done it. It's actually more of a work around. but it does work.

 

[Endtransmission]

Well, for the Faith issue, by the rules you do NOT need to have an AB to have the relavent skill for that AB.

Really? Reading through my copy of the SW book, Faith only ever gets mentioned in the description of the AB(Miracles) as Faith(Arcane), so I assumed that it wasn't available without that? I also can't see anything in the SW book that limits you to one Arcane Background either, unless I've missed something?

There is a way to have more then one background, but it is a lot of work. I have done it. It's actually more of a work around. but it does work.

I don't mind workarounds. Do you have an example of how you did that please?

I appear to be able to add my own Arcane Background(Mythos) after other ABs have been added, but not the other way around. I assume the core SW files preclude the other backgrounds if one of the others has been selected. JBearWillis, let me guess, you're creating your own ABs that match the originals, with the same power breakdowns and then precluding the original ABs?

 

[zarlor]

Really? Reading through my copy of the SW book, Faith only ever gets mentioned in the description of the AB(Miracles) as Faith(Arcane), so I assumed that it wasn't available without that? I also can't see anything in the SW book that limits you to one Arcane Background either, unless I've missed something?

A lot of folks make the same assumption, but official ruling by Clint Black on the Pinnacle forums has confirmed that all of the AB skills are purchasable by anyone at any time and can be used to make cooperative rolls, even if you don't have the AB itself. This is how, in Hell on Earth Reloaded, you can have a pre-requisite of a skill to even be able to purchase an AB. It's also how folks can have the Weird Science skill to use Weird Science gadgets without having to be a Weird Scientist. (See http://www.peginc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=39287)

As for ABs, according to Clint an AB (regardless of its "focus) is a single, unique, Edge, and therefore cannot be taken twice. (See http://www.peginc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=32647)

 

[Endtransmission]

Hmm thanks for that. I guess that means that the way I've approached the Mythos spells needs a serious rethink then. This could also explain why the Realms of Cthulhu data file doesn't include spells as it handles them in the same way as Achtung! Cthulhu

 

[zarlor]

Well, yeah that's the official ruling on ABs, but... there seems to me to be two ways to handle spells like that when dealing with the Hero Lab program. Either you set up an AB to open up that Arcane tab so you can bootstrap them to the character (and then having to work around that if you ever need to give a character a "real" AB), or you require the Fantasy Companion Add-On for Hero Lab and then use the Magic Item mechanic to add it into an item.

EDIT: Well, I suppose there is also a 3rd way, which is to simply create the item with a description about what it does and leave it to the player to deal with handling it.

 

[Endtransmission]

If it was just for me, I'd be fine with the Fantasy Companion workaround, but I'd rather not assume everyone has it available and try to work out how to get two Arcane Backgrounds (or something else) working

 

[Endtransmission]

EDIT: Well, I suppose there is also a 3rd way, which is to simply create the item with a description about what it does and leave it to the player to deal with handling it.

Option 4 is to create them as free Edges instead as Mythos powers use a roll Vs Knowledge(Mythos) rather than the usual casting process. Rather than using power points, they have a modifier on the skill roll

 

[zarlor]

I think I'd go with making them a Hindrance, rather than an Edge, simply because Hindrances are a lot easier to add "for free" on the Advance tab. Besides, they cost you Sanity so they must be a Hindrance, right. j/k

 

[Endtransmission]

Ouch! Has it really been that long since I actually did any work on this data file? Work has been a little hectic recently. Apparently hiring an apprentice to try and ease workload actually doubles it instead. Who'da thunk it?

The recent release of the third Achtung! Cthulhu adventure, and the imminent release of the first of the kickstarter books gave me a boot up the backside to get this finished, sharpish.

So. I'm back on the A!C case and am trying to sort out the Insanity bits that aren't covered in the Realms of Cthulhu dataset before returning to the horror that is the magic. This has me scratching my head... I've sorted all the calculations and if I pump in simple numbers to the Madness trait below, it works nicely... but as soon as I try to call values from another trait it all goes a bit Pete Tong.

I've seen in some other data files that people are calling the value of another trait using #trait[traitName], but when I try this on one of my new traits it returns 0?

In the code below I've created three new traits, trACSanity, trACAngu and trACMad. Sanity is copied straight from the RoC dataset and works; trACAng is populated from injuries and seems to update as injuries are added... but the calculations for Madness do not seem to change at all. As you can see in the example I've bypassed all of the calculations and tried to directly dump trACSanity or trACAngu into the variable. Both return 0. If I put in my own number instead of calling another field, it outputs the correct number... so what am I doing wrong with the call?

<thing id="trACSanity" name="Sanity" description="Those who face the twisted horrors of the Mythos tend not to remain sane for very long. The Sanity statistic is a trait that lets you monitor your character&#146;s mental health. Sanity is (2 + half Spirit) - Corruption" compset="Trait" uniqueness="unique">
    <fieldval field="trtAbbrev" value="San"/>
    <fieldval field="trtBonus" value="2"/>
    <usesource source="sepActCth"/>
    <tag group="DashTacCon" tag="Basics" name="Basics" abbrev="Basics"/>
    <tag group="DashTacCon" tag="Traits" name="Traits" abbrev="Traits"/>
    <tag group="explicit" tag="5"/>
    <eval phase="Traits" priority="4000" name="Calc Derived Bonus"><![CDATA[
    ~sanity is 2 plus half the character\'s Spirit - Corruption, but we track attributes at
      ~the half value (2-6), so we add Spirit directly; we get the Spirit by using
      ~the "#trait" macro
      ~we subtract the Corruption in the Corruption trait script
      ~Note: We must also handle an overage beyond d12 on a +1 per 2 full points basis.
      ~Note: We ADD the amount in case other effects have already applied adjustments.
      var bonus as number
      bonus = #trait[attrSpi]
      if (bonus >= 6) then
        bonus = 6 + round(hero.child[attrSpi].field[trtRoll].value / 2,0,-1)
      endif
      perform field[trtBonus].modify[+,bonus,"Half Spirit and - Corruption"]]]>
      <before name="Derived trtFinal"/>
      <after name="Calc trtFinal"/>
    </eval>
</thing>

<thing id="trACAngu" name="Anguish" description="Ooooh the anguish! - Anguish is assigned as an Injury" compset="Trait" uniqueness="unique">
	<fieldval field="trtAbbrev" value="Ang"/>
	<usesource source="sepActCth"/>
    <tag group="DashTacCon" tag="Basics" name="Basics" abbrev="Basics"/>
    <tag group="DashTacCon" tag="Traits" name="Traits" abbrev="Traits"/>
    <tag group="explicit" tag="6"/>
</thing>

<thing id="trACMad" name="Madness" description="Your investigator suffers 1 point of madness for every 4 points of mental anguish in excess of their sanity level" compset="Trait" uniqueness="unique">
	<fieldval field="trtAbbrev" value="Mad"/>
	<fieldval field="trtBonus" value="0"/>
	<usesource source="sepActCth"/>
    <tag group="DashTacCon" tag="Basics" name="Basics" abbrev="Basics"/>
    <tag group="DashTacCon" tag="Traits" name="Traits" abbrev="Traits"/>
    <tag group="explicit" tag="7"/>
	<eval phase="Traits" priority="1010" name="Calc Madness"><![CDATA[
	var tmpMadness as number
	var tmpAnguish as number
	var tmpSanity as number
	~tmpAnguish = #trait[trACAngu]
	~tmpSanity = #trait[trACSanity]
	~~~round(((Anguish - Sanity)/4) to 0 decimal places, rounding down) 
	~tmpMadness = ((tmpAnguish-tmpSanity)/4)
	~tmpMadness = round(tmpMadness,0,-1)

tmpMadness = #trait[trACSanity]

	if (tmpMadness > 0) then
~DamagePlus = hero.childfound[attrAgi].field[trtFinal].value - 1
~field[wpDmgBonus].value += DamagePlus
		perform field[trtBonus].modify[+,tmpMadness,"Going mad..."]				
	endif
	]]>	
	</eval>
</thing>

I'm going to kick myself for this one aren't I?

 

[Mathias]

Phase & Priority are critical. The script that calculates trtFinal operates at Traits/3000. Before this phase & priority, #trait[] will always return 0, because trtFinal hasn't been calculated yet.

 

[Endtransmission]

Ah ok, thanks. Changing the phase to 6000 now returns values for trACSanity and trACAngu, sadly not the correct values though.

However, looking back at the caluclations, I realised I'd made a slight mistake in the phasing of trACMad. I was running this in the Traits phase, but a lot of the adjustments to Sanity and Anguish were being done in the final phase, which meant it wasn't ever picking up the correct final values. I've now shifted the eval statement for the Madness trait into the Final phase and it's now all correct.

Thank you!

 

[Endtransmission]

Return to the fold

Whelp. Things went a bit slow there for a while as I decided to call it a day on the data file until the actual A!C rulebooks were released and I'd had a chance to digest their content. I'm still working my way through them, but work has recommenced... at last!

Unfortunately the Sanity/Anguish bits that nearly drove me mad in September has all changed *head/desk*. Thankfully it seems a bit simpler in game terms, but comes back to the age old issue of having to manually add Injuries.

Generating the Sanity value is fine, I have that all sorted. This is (2+(Spirit))-(1 per Knowledge(Mythos)). I've got this one working nicely.

To go with this, they have introduced a Dementia attribute for the characters, which is where my new frustration starts as I would love to be able to do this in a much more graceful manner, rather than rely upon people remembering to add an injury.

- Whenever the character fails a Terror test, or encounters a Mythos creature then gain Dementia points.
- If the number of Dementia points ever equals, or exceeds, the Sanity value, they should (cumulatively) gain an additional permanent -1 to their Sanity.
- Dementia points can be reduced with rest or other such tasks.

For example our investigator, Ted, has a Sanity of 4. He's been in some very sticky situations and has 3 points of Dementia already, when he fails yet another Terror test and gains one more point, equaling his Sanity level of 4. This should then reduce his Sanity to 3. He then rests for a few months until his Dementia levels drop back down to 2. He steps outside the door, fails another Terror test, gains another Dementia point... now equaling his new Sanity level of 3... and gains another point of Sanity loss.

If he were to carry on with the mission and gain more Dementia points, he does not lose another point of Sanity until he drops below his sanity level again (at least that is what it reads like)

At present it looks like a manual process that involves adding and removing injuries for the Dementia as well as injuries for the additional sanity loss over time. Can anyone think of a better way to do this?

Also, when did the Permanent Adjustments bit appear on the Personal tab and how can I bootstrap these things in? This may be a better way of at least tracking the Dementia level if not the additional Sanity losses.

Speaking of Permanent adjustments... I found a bug with one of them. For some reason you are offered the choice to permanently increase your Arcane Powers, even if you can't have any? This throws a nice little error. Ooops!

 

[dartnet]

BTW I had stared a Achtung! Cthulhu datafile for the Investigator guide. Maybe we could join forces?

 

[zarlor]

The problem I see is that you can't really reduce Sanity by some difference between it and Dementia, or even just by one if Dementia => Sanity because your changing the value of something you're using in the formula itself. The process just seems to variable to me, so I would think you would need to just track it the same as any other counter. However, you could probably set up some kind of script in the Setting that gives a warning/notice whenever Dementia => Sanity as a reminder to reduce Sanity by 1 point if it hasn't been done already. Maybe something like that.

Permanent Adjustments have been on the Personal tab for about as long as I can remember. Tracking Sanity modifiers there could be a good way to do it, but I don't know of a way in the Editor to force that to show up there for the player to use (or for it to happen in the Temporary Adjustments on the In-Play tab either, for that matter.) There probably is a way to do it, I just don't know how. But if you figure it out let us know! You may have to dig into the deep, dark depths of the Wiki and see if you can figure it out from there. :/

 

[Endtransmission]

However, you could probably set up some kind of script in the Setting that gives a warning/notice whenever Dementia => Sanity as a reminder to reduce Sanity by 1 point if it hasn't been done already. Maybe something like that.

Glad I'm not the only one that thinks that part is a headache inducing task. I'm not sure the warning would be particularly easy (or useful) to do as you could have your sanity reduced via Dementia multiple times. Trying to identify if the sanity reduction in there is from the last time they exceeded their Sanity level, or from the current occurrence wouldn't be all that easy as there aren't things like data stamps that we can reference in the checks and no counters that we can increment each time we go over.

Permanent Adjustments have been on the Personal tab for about as long as I can remember. Tracking Sanity modifiers there could be a good way to do it, but I don't know of a way in the Editor to force that to show up there for the player to use (or for it to happen in the Temporary Adjustments on the In-Play tab either, for that matter.) There probably is a way to do it, I just don't know how. But if you figure it out let us know! You may have to dig into the deep, dark depths of the Wiki and see if you can figure it out from there. :/

It looks like my next fun task is Wiki trawling then. I'm obviously going blind as I've missed that area before. It seems like it could be useful for.... stuff. It's early and my brain isn't awake yet. I will let you know how the wiki hunting goes... otherwise I'm back to using injuries for Dementia and the extra Sanity loss.

 

[zarlor]

I'll add it to the list of things to look for if I get some time, which it just seems this is the wrong time of year for. I haven't been able to be too much help here lately beyond something I might remember. At any rate, maybe it is possible, if a bit convoluted. Presumably you could set a tag if the condition of Dementia => Sanity is met, but have the tag be the first thing it checks for. So if the tag is set (<> 0) then you would check if Dementia => Sanity, but if the tag is not set you would only check for if Dementia < Sanity, in which case you would unset the tag. Thus you wouldn't be setting something every time Dementia hit the mark, only the first time it did it.

I think that might do it for you. Don't ask me why I didn't think of it earlier.