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Achtung! Cthulhu datafile

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Endtransmission

Well-known member
Hopefully this is in the right place, otherwise... please move it to where it should be. I'm putting together a datafile for the Savage Worlds / Achtung! Cthulhu adventure setting Three Kings. So far it's all going well for my first data file, but I've got one last thing to fix before I'm ready to start testing it properly...

As this is a Cthulhu game, there are books of mythos spells floating around. I'd like to be able to bootstrap spells to a character when I add the tome, but for some reason this is erroring.

I've created the spell:

<thing id="powACDeRe" name="Devouring Retribution" description="Summon Shoggoth - The wielder has no control over the released Shoggoth" compset="Power" summary="Summon Shoggoth" uniqueness="useronce">
<usesource source="ACTKing"/>
<tag group="MinRank" tag="1"/>
</thing>

And the tome:

<thing id="eqACBoS" name="The Book of Shadows" description="The Book of Shadows, also known as Schatten Des Weigen Dunkels or Shadows of the Eternal Dark, is a mythos grimoir" compset="Equipment" summary="Mythos Grimoir" uniqueness="unique">
<fieldval field="shortname" value="Book of Shadows"/>
<usesource source="ACTKing"/>
<tag group="GearType" tag="ACGrimoir" name="Grimoir"/>
<bootstrap thing="eqWireCut"></bootstrap>
<bootstrap thing="vhSdkfz7"></bootstrap>
<bootstrap thing="powACDeRe"></bootstrap>
</thing>

I get the following message, but can't figure out where it's failing:


"Attempt to access non-live child pick 'resPowers' from script location: 'eval' script for Component 'Power' (Eval Script '#2') near line 3"


As you can see, I've added a couple of other items via bootstrap to check that I'd got it right... eqWireCut and vhSdkfz7 get added perfectly, just not powACDeRe. As soon as I remove <bootstrap thing="powACDeRe"></bootstrap> the error goes away, which makes me suspect we're not allowed to bootstrap powers?

the weird thing is that powers do show up in the list of available items that you can bootstrap in the editor... so I'm a bit confused...
 
I've been really busy today and just got home and I'm too exhausted to see if I can figure that out right now, but I'll try to take a closer look tomorrow morning if somebody else doesn't jump in first.
 
I could be totally off base but You might see how some of the magic items work and see if any one of them might give you an idea of how to do it. You are doing something I haven't tried yet, but I would think with how magic items work you might be able to in some fashion.
 
Magic items don't seem to bootstrap powers to characters (not that I've found, anyway) but extensively use the Gizmo section to put their effects on magic items, but even then they have their own separate set-up for MIPowers rather than the nromal powers a character uses. The examples I find in data files where Powers are bootstrapped involve either an AB that bootstraps a specific power or a creature that bootstraps a power, but even in those cases the creature also bootstraps an Arcane Background.

SO, my guess is that the item can't bootstrap the power without also having some kind of AB already done on the character which would do all of the background stuff that adds an Arcane Power tab to the portfolio and sets up power points and such. So the question is, how does Achtung, Cthulu! handle those things? Does ahving a book give the character some number of power points that they can use to cast the power int he book all the time? Do those power points only come in the book? Or is it a one-shot thing or what? I think we'd have to make sure the underlying structure needs to be there before just bootstrapping in a power.
 
Thanks for the comments guys. The two current Achtung! Cthulhu books are supposed to run off the Realms of Cthulhu system, but I've found a few differences in how things work. They just finished a Kickstarter for their own GM and Player books with everything the players will need, so I would rather avoid extending Realms of Cthulhu if I can, as things will likely change when their own setting books come out.

The tome is basically book with some spells in. You can spend d4 weeks translating it and once you understand the book you have access to the spells contained within it. You don't appear (at this point in time) to need an Arcane Background to cast the spells, just Knowledge (Mythos). You have access to the spells for as long as you have the book and can use them as many times as you want assuming you have the various trappings necessary to run the ritual.

I think you may have just hit the nail on the head though... As I've got no arcane backgrounds, Hero Lab doesn't have anywhere to add the spells to (which could be our error). Maybe I need to grant everyone with Knowledge (Mythos) a special Arcane Background, even though it's not mentioned in the Achtung! Cthulhu books?

[update] Ok, I created a new Arcane Background called Mythos that basically disallows all of the other Arcane powers and bootstrapped this to the setting so all characters currently get it. This seems to have resolved the error with the book then bootstrapping my spell to the character. Thanks!

Now to work out how to add the Arcane Background when you acquire Knowledge (Mythos)! The Bootstrap page in the wiki talks about conditional bootstrapping, but doesn't contain an example... do you know where there this is used that I can look at please?
 
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Speaking of adding things to characters via the book... When the character translates it, there are two permanent bonuses that get applied to the character, even if they then lose or sell the book. They are supposed to gain 1 level of Knowledge (Mythos) and decrease their sanity level. I can get most of these effects to occur while the book is in the player's possession, but I can't work out how to permanently apply either of them.

Sanity is handled in the same way as in the Tour of Darkness setting (2+(Spirit/2)) and I'm tracking sanity loss through a custom injury. If I bootstrap an injury to the book, the injury goes away when they lose the book; which isn't quite what I want.

Is there any way to script the permanently addition of an injury or skill to a character? My search-fu has failed me on this one so far. Thanks again!
 
Don't get me started on conditional bootstrapping! Suffice to say there is not such thing, at least not directly. You kind of have to approach it from the side or otherwise just apply the effects of whatever it was you wanted to bootstrap. Your approach of giving it as a base to everyone probably works best, just maybe set it with 0 power points or something. You could try to use a containerreq to hide the AB unless Knowledge (Mythos) is taken, though. Which might work but I find containerreqs to be fairly temperamental and only work in certain instances, but not others. You might check out the Deadlands Noir file, though, and see if how the Dominion Trait is hidden in that file might work for this method if a direct containerreq doesn't.

For applying a permanent effect from a bootstrapped item, though... I'd have to play around with that to see what would work. Let me see if I can find something tomorrow or maybe JBear or someone else will have some ideas or a chance to play with it before I do.
 
You could make an Hindrance that will give you knowledge (Mythos) level 1 and also have it drop your sanity by a level and when you make the hindrance you could check the Omit from printout that way the hindrance doesn't show up on character sheets but gives you the benefits of said hindrance. So when you sale the book take the hindrance. I will have to work on it but that may be the way to go. Just a thought - I will play with it tomorrow.
 
I think I'd agree with jbear. You may have to create some Hindrances that the player can add using the Advance mechanic (since it won't charge you for taking a Hindrance, this is also how I started handling Coup in DL Noir and HoER, for instance). Equipment does only seem to provide an effect from it as long as it's in inventory so I'm not sure I can think of a way to make any effect from an item be "sticky" once the item is gone. Presumably that might require a change to the core data files, and if you would like to see that happen please be sure to post it on the "What changes/enhancements would you like to see?" thread.

Unless maybe CapedCrusdaer or Mathias or someone with more knowledge and skill with the program besides us has some other ideas, that is.
 
Cool, thanks for the suggestions, I'll have a play with the hindrances tonight... it sounds like that's probably the best way to go with the after effects of having the book.

There is another issue that I've got with the book/skills, but I'll come back to that after I've locked off this one :)
 
Hmmm. Interesting issue with my attempt to create the after effects as a hindrance... With the Equipment entry I'd bootstrapped the Knowledge (Mythos) skill as:

<bootstrap thing="skKnow">
<assignval field="domDomain" value="mythos"/>
</bootstrap>

This works and adds the full knowledge skill, including the Mythos value.

If I use exactly the same three lines of code in the Hindrance, it creates the Knowledge skill, but doesn't fill in the mythos value, which seems... odd. Bootstrapping other equipment or an injury with the hindrance is fine.

jbearwillis, I had a look through all the different Savage Worlds data files for your Harrowed entry. I found the hindrance and bootstrapped edge in HoER.user, were these ones you were talking about?
 
Well that is zarlors file with a little help from me. We added a faction to that which you won't need or at least I wouldn't figure you would need to add that. Not sure if he got it in the hell on earth file, but I know it's in his Deadland Noir file and yes it's the Harrowed Hindrance. Weird I just made a hindrance and bootstrapped the knowledge skill with mythos as the focus and it showed up for me -
 
Endtransmission said:
Hmmm. Interesting issue with my attempt to create the after effects as a hindrance... With the Equipment entry I'd bootstrapped the Knowledge (Mythos) skill as:

<bootstrap thing="skKnow">
<assignval field="domDomain" value="mythos"/>
</bootstrap>

This works and adds the full knowledge skill, including the Mythos value.

If I use exactly the same three lines of code in the Hindrance, it creates the Knowledge skill, but doesn't fill in the mythos value, which seems... odd. Bootstrapping other equipment or an injury with the hindrance is fine.
Click to expand...

Are you sure you didn't typo something? That works fine for me. Are you doing that with direct editing in the file? If so you might try looking at it from the Editor just in case.

jbearwillis, I had a look through all the different Savage Worlds data files for your Harrowed entry. I found the hindrance and bootstrapped edge in HoER.user, were these ones you were talking about?
Click to expand...

Either DLNoir or HoER should have what he worked out for me on the Harrowed Hindrance and using that method to "hide" a derived trait with a containerreq. (Unless he meant something else about pointing out the Harrowed thing.)

EDIT: JBear snuck in a response on me!
 
I see what is happening - when the character is locked in advancement mode knowledge skills for some reason doesn't bootstrap the value for the knowledge skill. I don't know if that is a limit to the program or what. I need to play around a little to see if there is a way to get it to work.
 
I wonder why it won't bootstrap the Value of the domDomain when in Advancement mode - it will only do it in creation mode. That's very puzzling to say the least.
 
I would guess that might be a bug, or maybe just a missed function. I don't really see anything in the documentation that should preclude domDomain from working the same way in Advancement mode as it does on Creation.
 
Glad it's not just me that can't get that bit working... it was driving me mad (how appropriate!) ;)

Reading the Realms of Cthulhu book a bit more, I think the sanity loss will need to just be a manual addition when they read the book as the sanity can be cured with therapy; which you can't do if it's bootstrapped to the Hindrance. The general HL error checking does warn that the Knowledge skill hasn't been completed, so I've put a note in the Hindrance text to note that they will need to add Mythos manually until a workaround is found.

The other issue I am having seems to be the same one that Zalor was having in his +1 Skill die or start with d4 thread. Did you ever get a response on that, other than to have two different hindrances? I've created two hindrances for use after you get rid of the book to either add, or increase Knowledge (Mythos), but that doesn't really help with the book itself, unless I have two copies of the book...

I'm currently trying to work out if there is a better way of handling the book as there will be others in the future. Current thinking (which may not be the best on 2 hours sleep) is that the sanity and knowledge effects should be removed from the book altogether and just handled as the hindrances/injuries that come into play when you translate the book. Only the spells should remain bootstrapped to the books.

With that all now up and running with workarounds... back to typing in equipment and spells :/
 
jbearwillis said:
I see what is happening - when the character is locked in advancement mode knowledge skills for some reason doesn't bootstrap the value for the knowledge skill. I don't know if that is a limit to the program or what. I need to play around a little to see if there is a way to get it to work.
Click to expand...

The weird thing here though is that bootstrapping exactly the same skill with a piece of equipment still works once the character is locked; it just seems to be failing when the bootstrap is on a hindrance.
 
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