Why gnome speed 35 ft, not 30 ft?

[ShadowChemosh]

Originally Posted by Mathias

Oh, and I'm going to need to research this further to see how haste is supposed to interact with encumbrance - when the spell says "the subject's normal speed using that form of movement", is that normal unencumbered speed, or 40' in this case, or normal encumbered speed, or 30' in this case. Seems much more likely to be the encumbered speed - otherwise, this character moves 40' while hasted, which means there's no speed penalty for this character being encumbered as long as he's hasted, since he'd also move 40' while hastened and unencumbered.

The way I read it is that haste does affect base speed up to "double" and then you apply the encumbrance rules.

If you look at the chart at the bottom of THIS page it works out that the gnome should have a 30ft speed.

Gnome base speed 20. Then we give a +30 speed bonus up to double speed giving us a total of 40ft. Then we look at encumbrance chart and see that 40ft base gets you 30ft when encumbered (ie wearing armor).

Net result is 30ft hasted and encumbered and 40ft when hasted with no encumbrance. IMHO.

[Minous]

Keep in mind that encumbered is calculated off base speed, not current speed.Haste, expeditious retreat and few other spells modify final speed, but the encumbrance is off base speed. With haste and similar spells you have 20 base +20 enhancement bonus, and encumbrance penitaly. If encumbrance was calculated off of current speed they would say it. However they use the term base speed for a reason.

[Aaron]

Originally Posted by Minous

Keep in mind that encumbered is calculated off base speed, not current speed.Haste, expeditious retreat and few other spells modify final speed, but the encumbrance is off base speed. With haste and similar spells you have 20 base +20 enhancement bonus, and encumbrance penitaly. If encumbrance was calculated off of current speed they would say it. However they use the term base speed for a reason.

Is there a stronger support for that than just "they don't say otherwise"?

[Farling]

Page 192 of the Core Rulebook: "Always apply any modifiers to a character’s speed before adjusting the character’s speed based on armor or encumbrance, and remember that multiple bonuses of the same type to a character’s speed don’t stack."

There is a thread from 2010 on Paizo.com where they finally quote this page, but then try to show an example showing the haste bonus being applied after the change for encumbrance.

If you want James Jacob's (Creative Director) opinion it, search for Haste in the thread http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l7ns&pa...ons-Here#65084

The Haste spell doesn't mention base speed, it says "All of the hasted creature's modes of movement (including land movement, burrow, climb, fly, and swim) increase by 30 feet..." (no mention of any particular category of speed deinition.)

This means the examples including haste that have been on d20pfsrd.com in the Glossary since 2010 are wrong.

[psych777]

that's why its magic

[Jamz]

Farling has it but another way to think about it is, Haste says this 30 feet is an "enhancement bonus". It has to be a bonus to something, so it's a bonus to you base speed(s) for all forms of listed movements.

It also states, "This increase counts as an enhancement bonus, and it affects the creature's jumping distance as normal for increased speed."

Jump is modified if you have a base speed of over/under 30ft. So it would be odd that jump was modified but not your encumbrance...


Also, @Mathis, I think the reason people post vs (or in addition to) submitting a bug is to get an answer. Say, I have a game tomorrow and I'd like to know if HL is calculating something right? If I submit a bug, I have to wait to see if it's fixed (and not sure if you respond to every submission either) so I'm in the dark. Via the forums, the community can usually answer quicker, especially if it's a user error or misinterpretation of the rules.

Personally, I'd love to see some transparency on your bugs/issues. There could be a web page listing all the submitted bugs with a status/eta/version #/etc. Then as a user I can say, "oh look, they are working on it already, cool. Let me hit the +1 to let them know I experienced the bug too..."

[Aaron]

Originally Posted by Farling

Page 192 of the Core Rulebook: "Always apply any modifiers to a character’s speed before adjusting the character’s speed based on armor or encumbrance, and remember that multiple bonuses of the same type to a character’s speed don’t stack."

There is a thread from 2010 on Paizo.com where they finally quote this page, but then try to show an example showing the haste bonus being applied after the change for encumbrance.

If you want James Jacob's (Creative Director) opinion it, search for Haste in the thread http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l7ns&pa...ons-Here#65084

The Haste spell doesn't mention base speed, it says "All of the hasted creature's modes of movement (including land movement, burrow, climb, fly, and swim) increase by 30 feet..." (no mention of any particular category of speed deinition.)

This means the examples including haste that have been on d20pfsrd.com in the Glossary since 2010 are wrong.

Thanks for the citation. That's how I thought it worked, but it's good to have confirmation.