Hugely disappointed.

[Dianae]

Originally Posted by ShadowChemosh

The key thing to remember is NOT to use IE. IE is not a web browser. Its ONLY purpose is to download real web browsers.

IE does serve more purposes than that within any Windows OS. But, yes, I strongly second the recommendation of using a secondary browser for actual web browsing.

On another Note, it would be nice to have the "most popular" of the custom sheets(not just for Pathfinder) incorporated in to an actual HeroLab release, if there would not be any conflicts between community made vs. official Lone Wolf for any legal purposes.

[RavenX]

I haven't chimed in on this yet, mostly because the first post was rather insulting, however, I'd like to point out that we do have feature request threads in the forums specifically geared toward improving Hero Lab. These threads are not limited to user interface requests, you can suggest improvements to the output options. As a person that has coded under hero labs hood more than most users, I can say that it is a big task to get character sheets even working correctly at times. I've struggled getting my Deathwatch sheets to output properly at times, and I still do not have them working 100% perfectly. That having been said, I am just one person. Lone Wolf Development does not have a large staff of software development engineers, this is a small team of people who work hard to keep up with data releases and improving the software.

If you feel improvements are needed, use a feature request thread, and do try to be nicer about it. Miss Liz has made a sticky thread about kindness in the forums. Be sure to read it, please.

[Korlen]

Originally Posted by LazarX

Teldil chose a lousy way to express himself but he does have a point. Herolab scores way ahead in material support, but telling someone to use AncientOne's sheets doesn't really cut the mustard here. As it is it takes three print operations to create three separate files what PCGen outputs as a single sheet. I've brought this up before in considerably more polite form and I assume that the Ability and Gear output options were an attempt to respond.

What AncientOne's output option does show is that Herolab can do a better job than it presently does when it comes to output. PCGen should be the benchmark you should be aiming as a commercial product to not only equal... but surpass.

On MacOS it's easy to make PDFS from AncientOne's sheet because PDF is a native format for us. But the output is lacking in organization and aesthetics.

Teldil chose a bad way to express himself, but he's not wrong.

Pardon me for attempting to provide an option based entirely within the limited scope of my product knowledge. As no one had provided any other options at the time, I thought I'd give it a go and try to be helpful. For my effort, you have a go at me? So be it. Now that I'm aware if proper forum assistance decorum, I hereby swear this: It'll never happen again.

[LazarX]

Originally Posted by ShadowChemosh

Its super easy on windows also. A dozen different free PDF Printer applications exist that lets you print to a PDF printer and it makes a PDF of whatever you print. I use PrimoPDF but plenty of others to choose from. If you select the same file again PrimoPDF asks if you want to even append.

Personally sense you can move sections around with AncientOne's sheet it was the go to sheet for my group for a long time. Now that we all use iPads or laptops I have not looked at the paper sheets in a long time.

I recently introduced another group to AncientOne's sheet instead of the built in HL one and its all they use now. So I can't think its all that bad. The key thing to remember is NOT to use IE. IE is not a web browser. Its ONLY purpose is to download real web browsers. So make sure you are using a modern web browser like FireFox or Chrome if you have any issues with AncientOne's sheet.

XSLT/HTML is not really all that bad to work with. Lots of articles on it to learn on the net. So you can always make your own 100% custom sheet if you wanted. About 2 years ago this was the HUGE threads here at HL forums was begging for custom sheets. Been pretty quite sense we got it...

Here's what I really want Shadow, and I don't have the skill to pull it off. You just might, if it interests you enough. I want PCGen's output sheet from Herolab. That would be the best of both worlds. I know it's based on XSLT/HTML, but at that point you've exhausted my technical knowledge of this matter. The problem is that Herolab doesn't give you a custom sheet to PDF avenue as far as I know. As far as Ancient One's s beet, I've tried it on Safari, Chrome, and Firefox, with about the same results each time on my Hackintosh.

[LazarX]

Originally Posted by Korlen

Pardon me for attempting to provide an option based entirely within the limited scope of my product knowledge. As no one had provided any other options at the time, I thought I'd give it a go and try to be helpful. For my effort, you have a go at me? So be it. Now that I'm aware if proper forum assistance decorum, I hereby swear this: It'll never happen again.

No, I'm not having a "go" at you. I"m not insulting you. I'm stating a technical critique. Learn to recognize when it's not personal. I have made PDFs from Ancient One's sheet, while they are serviceable, aesthetically they come up short in tightness and organization compared to the PCGen output. The folks who are happy with the output, more power to them! My critiques are based on my particular personal aesthetic standards. I never said that they had to be anyone else's standards. I do think however that a product's native output should be of a certain standard of quality, aesthetics, and usability before relying on outside sources.

[ShadowChemosh]

Originally Posted by LazarX

The problem is that Herolab doesn't give you a custom sheet to PDF avenue as far as I know.

Part of what I was saying is that HL DOES have this ability. Install PrimoPDF and then every application on your computer can now make a PDF.

1) Install PrimoPDF. This makes a Printer on your computer called PrimoPDF.
2) Generate a Custom Sheet like Ancient's.
3) In your web browser press "CTRL-P" and select the "PrimoPDF" printer.
4) In the new window set the setting to "Print Quality" and press Create.
5) Another new window opens asking where to save your PDF file.
6) Enjoy your PDF character sheet.

Note you can print from ANYTHING in windows now and have it make you a PDF. I use it for when I purchase stuff on the web. I make a PDF of the receipt for my records in example.

In example the PDF character sheet you see in THIS post was done with the steps above.

Originally Posted by LazarX

As far as Ancient One's s beet, I've tried it on Safari, Chrome, and Firefox, with about the same results each time on my Hackintosh.

If it is not working or displaying errors my advice would be to post in AncientOne's thread for help.

I don't really mean to imply either that current sheets are perfect. Because character sheets are like art. It is TOTALLY in the eye of the beholder if its good or not. No sheet is going to be 100% perfect but as ancients can move sections around and stuff it gives good flexibility.

Allot of gamers are programers and many work day jobs involving XSLT and HTML. But like before HL had the editor you have to have some more technical knowledge currently to modify/create a custom sheet.

[Korlen]

Originally Posted by LazarX

No, I'm not having a "go" at you. I"m not insulting you. I'm stating a technical critique. Learn to recognize when it's not personal. I have made PDFs from Ancient One's sheet, while they are serviceable, aesthetically they come up short in tightness and organization compared to the PCGen output. The folks who are happy with the output, more power to them! My critiques are based on my particular personal aesthetic standards. I never said that they had to be anyone else's standards. I do think however that a product's native output should be of a certain standard of quality, aesthetics, and usability before relying on outside sources.

You said "telling someone to use AncientOne's sheet ... Doesn't cut the mustard here." This is the politically correct way to tell someone "your idea is stupid." How is that not personal? You didn't say the sheet doesn't cut the mustard; my advice to try it doesn't. And your instructions towards me to "learn to recognize"? Not only is that also personal to the point where it should have been delivered privately, it is tantamount to "see things my way, the right way, the only way". I'd expect that in a political thread, not here where users dedicate themselves to helping each other and work towards a singular purpose of making the good better.

I could state how responses should read, but in an open forum that's wasted energy and is dragging a topic that would probably have gotten locked by now even further off.

[LazarX]

Originally Posted by Korlen

You said "telling someone to use AncientOne's sheet ... Doesn't cut the mustard here." This is the politically correct way to tell someone "your idea is stupid." How is that not personal? You didn't say the sheet doesn't cut the mustard; my advice to try it doesn't. And your instructions towards me to "learn to recognize"? Not only is that also personal to the point where it should have been delivered privately, it is tantamount to "see things my way, the right way, the only way". I'd expect that in a political thread, not here where users dedicate themselves to helping each other and work towards a singular purpose of making the good better.

I could state how responses should read, but in an open forum that's wasted energy and is dragging a topic that would probably have gotten locked by now even further off.

"Doesn't cut the mustard" means that it doesn't meet my expectations. I expect Herolab to deliver output of a certain standard by itself, without having to rely on someone's web form. i want something that looks better than Ancient's output. If you took that as a personal attack, then you are the kind of person who can't separate legitimate criticism, because you're stuck in an "I must be right" mode. And that's not something I can help you with. I can't help if you insist on putting things into language which aren't there.

[rob]

Gentlemen, please stop with the attitude and snarkiness. It's rude and wholly unacceptable. My gut says that this thread should have been deleted immediately - NOT because of its subject, but because of the language and tone. We allowed the nastiness to set the tone for this thread and it has continued with others as well. So I'm closing this thread now.

If anyone would like to discuss this subject further, they are welcome to create a new thread for that purpose. However, everyone is officially on notice that appropriate decorum is expected and all attitude needs to be taken elsewhere. Failure to do so will result in more drastic measures being taken.