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Didn't buy HL because of Software Activation

raindog308

New member
Downloaded the HL demo, fired it up, read some docs, and realized it used Software Activation. Uninstalled.

Sorry guys. Looks like a great product and I would have very likely bought a copy. But I just am not going to buy software that has Software Activation, for several reasons:

  1. I once bought a product that used SA and the company subsequently went out of business. Reinstalled my OS and now that product is sitting on a shelf and it's impossible for me to use.
  2. I am also not a fan of per-node licensing. I am the only one who would ever use this software so it really shouldn't matter if I install it on my PC and laptop and another smaller laptop I take on a plane.
  3. Too many headaches about activation (just a look at your forum confirms this).
  4. Why should I have headaches if I change computers? I upgrade my PC or laptop probably once a year and there's often an OS reinstall or major hardware change...and then I have to sit on the phone or wait on email.

Yes, some of the "big guys" use it, but while I'm forced to use MS Windows, I'm not forced to use Hero Lab.

I realize piracy is a problem, but SA is a bad way to try to solve it. And I say that as someone who publishes electronically.
 
The activation issue was solely my fault. I clicked on the wrong game, and I had access to that game the entire time. It was my own fault! Likewise, technical support has been outstanding in helping me get the product working like it should. I'm having a blast with this software!
 
You're not forced to use Windows either. There are plenty of alternatives to that. Even then, I use HeroLab on my laptop running Linux via WINE. ;)

If the company disappeared off the face of the Earth, naturally there could be serious problems though if we're lucky they wouldn't try to screw their fans in that scenario. (I actually have more faith in smaller companies over that sort of thing than I do the "big guys.")

Per node licensing is really the norm these days. Not typically seriously enforced though it is more and more. Though considering you get a "free" secondary license right off the bat for another machine you own.. I really see them as being kind personally.

Never had any trouble with activation myself.

I do understand the concerns with swapping out computers or OS reinstalls. Though you get to swap the license to a new machine no questions asked every six months I believe. If you're swapping out computers faster than that or needing to reinstall your OS more often than that, well, you have other issues to worry about if you ask me.

That being said, you're perfectly free to make your own mind up. There are plenty of alternatives to Hero Lab. I happen to use it because I find it to be the best for me. I accept that piracy prevention methods are something to live with in the face of.. pirates. Activation like this is one of the best countermeasures I'm aware of really.
 
technical support has been outstanding in helping me get the product working like it should. I'm having a blast with this software!

Same here

At first I was a bit averse to all this DRM stuff but after seeing how easy it was to install herolab and update it, I can honestly say my fears were unfounded.

And as for Lone Wolf going out of business, its not like it was established yesterday :D
 
The other posted above summed up things quite well, although I want to just clarify a few details in regards to each of your points.

1. I once bought a product that used SA and the company subsequently went out of business. Reinstalled my OS and now that product is sitting on a shelf and it's impossible for me to use.

I've been burned like this before as well, so I can understand the concern. As some measure of reassurance, Lone Wolf has been in business for 16 years now, and we've been publishing our own software for gamers for 12 of those years. We've always used an activation technology all those 12 years, and we even still actively support the activation mechanism for users who continue to utilize long-outdated versions of our software - such as Army Builder V2 that was last updated 9 years ago.

2. I am also not a fan of per-node licensing. I am the only one who would ever use this software so it really shouldn't matter if I install it on my PC and laptop and another smaller laptop I take on a plane.

The drawback of "trust" licensing like you suggest is that it's probably the worst form of licensing amongst gamers - at least, based on everything we've learned over the past many years. The primary reason is that one member of a gaming group often buys the software and then gives it to everyone else in his group. Heck, we get multiple groups of gamers every year at GenCon pooling their money right in front of us to share a copy amongst them. If that brazen behavior goes on right in front of the company, how often is it happening in the privacy of the gaming group?

To offset this, we provide a free secondary license so everyone can use the product on a second computer. That handles most users. Additional secondary licenses are also available for only $10 apiece to accommodate those users who are the exception and want to run the product on three or more computers.

3. Too many headaches about activation (just a look at your forum confirms this).

There are occasional hiccups in the activation process for users. However, it's significantly less than 1% of our overall userbase and always due to either a technical issue with the user's computer configuration (e.g. internet security blocking the product from the internet or something similar) or the user making an inadvertent mistake. In either case, we are pretty good about getting things sorted out for the user as quickly as possible - as Rithralas, our latest user with an activation problem, attests to above.

4. Why should I have headaches if I change computers? I upgrade my PC or laptop probably once a year and there's often an OS reinstall or major hardware change...and then I have to sit on the phone or wait on email.

In general, you won't have headaches changing computers. The licensing mechanism is intended to keep one person in a gaming group from sharing their copy with everyone else in the group - not to make everyone's life difficult. When a user activates a license on a new computer (or the first), a clock starts. After 4 months, that license can be moved to a new computer and reactivated automatically. Since the average user typically upgrades or reinstalls his computer every 18-24 months, the four-month waiting period is generally plenty. The only time we need to be contacted is when the reinstall occurs less than 4 months after the last activation, and we can usually get the user up and running again within 24 hours when that happens.

Yes, some of the "big guys" use it, but while I'm forced to use MS Windows, I'm not forced to use Hero Lab.

No one is forced to buy any product from any company, including Microsoft even. There are alternative tools to Hero Lab available, and they work perfectly well. We believe we offer the best value for the investment of time and money, and the fact that Hero Lab is the favored tool among most gamers bears that out. It's entirely your choice which tools you choose to use for any purpose.

I realize piracy is a problem, but SA is a bad way to try to solve it. And I say that as someone who publishes electronically.

Unfortunately, software activation is the only reliable way that we've found. Is it perfect? Not in the least. But piracy is a reality, and it's HUGE amongst gamers, so we need to take the necessary steps to keep the company in business so we can continue producing quality tools.

If someone were to propose an alternate method that will RELIABLY produce equal or better results, we'd love to hear it. Thus far, we haven't seen such an alternative.
 
Hmmm. Sorry to revive an old topic here, but I'm feeling exactly the same way.

And I know you've been around for years. I bought Army Builder back in 2005, and some friends did too on my recommendation.

Now I am perpetually stuck on version 3.2d instead of 3.5c unless I want to pay for it again. Had I not been such an early adopter I might have caught the 2012 expiry freeze - I’m not sure why that wasn’t applied backwards to all purchasers.

Your licensing does not encourage me to buy more of your products. I've since started playing pen and paper too, and I would rather like to try out HeroLab. If it was a $20 one off, 'normal' sort of license, I'd snap it up, and I'm sure plenty more would. But it's not.

I'd have to pay $30 to start with, with the associated worry that it'll be rendered irrelevant by future changes, and the headaches of activation.

Then $20 because I play 2 game systems. It's not like I'm using HeroLab twice as much, I just happen to only play 1 game each in 3 different systems (1 of which isn't even supported anyway). Lots of people might play 3 games in 1 system - why do they get it cheaper?

And then I find I have to fork out another $10. Because I have the audacity to want to run it on my desktop, my laptop, and my windows tablet. Then the associated headache of having to transfer licenses around should I want to reinstall or change any of those. And that's not even counting if I wanted to pop it on my work PC too.

Back in 2005, it kind of made sense. But we live in a cloud connected age. I, like lots of other people, have and use a load of devices, in a load of places. You've made some progress - an ipad app is nice, I guess, if I had an ipad or played pathfinder. But not enough.

Rejig and reinvigorate. You're still on top, with no direct competition, and the actual product is sound. If you want to keep that advantage and be around another decade, you need to revise a lot of things. Cloud storage, either host it yourselves or support more than just drop box (google drive would suit me!), needs to be integrated into the app seamlessly - so you can look at the same sheets / rosters / campaigns / decks on every device. Android apps, for phone as well as tablet. A web interface tapping into the same database would be a great perk. And of course... a reformed licensing model.

Some recognition of geeky people wanting more than 1 of your products might be nice too - where's the bundle deals or existing customer discounts?

Get it all right, and I think I, and many other people, might even buy into an annual subscription - something like $50 annually for the use of all your products. I think that might actually net you a lot more in the long run than the current model!

In the meantime, I'm off to go and choose between Roll20, Obsidian Portal and BeyondTabletop instead!
 
In the meantime, I'm off to go and choose between Roll20, Obsidian Portal and BeyondTabletop instead!

That's kind of like saying, "I don't like the way you build your cars. I want a better one. So I'm going to buy a Sopwith Camel instead."

HeroLab is character creation and management. Roll20, Obsidian Portal and BeyondTabletop are VTTs or campaign management. They're both aspects of gaming, but separate aspects.

I've used HeroLab for many years. I've reinstalled my entire OS, or migrated to a different system many times. I think I've only had maybe two reactivation issues. Otherwise, it's been seamless. I hate anti-piracy measures that get in my way. Hero Lab's doesn't. It just simply doesn't.

And when I have had those two reactivation issues, it was solved with a simple email. Just one. I never had to send a second one. I never had to answer any questions or show proof of purchase or prove or justify anything.

Granted, I was using the email address I registered with, and that is an important aspect. But all I had to do was just say, "hey, it's me. I'm reinstalling. Please reset." And within 24 hours, it was done. That easy. That simple. That friendly.

My experience as a Hero Lab customer has been vastly different than your perceptions as a prospective purchaser. I will stand by them 100% on this.
 
I have been using Hero Lab for some time. First bought it for use with Pathfinder, then moved to D&D 5.0 now. I have never had any issues with the software. I think the fear of what could be is greater than the reality of what is.

In our group several of us use it (and yes we all paid for it rob :) ) and it has been a God Send for me. I admit I wish all the game systems I play were supported by Hero Lab, I just realize some are not large enough to pull in the support.

Just my .02 :D
 
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I've used HeroLab for many years. I've reinstalled my entire OS, or migrated to a different system many times. I think I've only had maybe two reactivation issues. Otherwise, it's been seamless. I hate anti-piracy measures that get in my way. Hero Lab's doesn't. It just simply doesn't.
Yeah I have done the same and never even had a single issue actually. I have it running on 5 devices currently and have upgraded them. I have changed iPad's several times. Moving to a new device is simple and seamless as I just remove the software from old iPad and reinstall HL on the new iPad and license auto-transferred.

That is the sweet thing of the license. The ability to transfer computers tablets every 120 days is really nice. :)
 
It's not like Microsoft will give you Gears of War just because you bought Windows and Halo, is it?

Every game system is a separate game license for Lone Wolf and requires a different effort to code and maintain.
 
I took my hard drive out of my old laptop and put it in this one and didn't have to reactivate even though other programs I did. Hero Lab was fine.
 
Rob:

Is there any plans to allow the purchasing of more than 2 additional licenses? Or introduce shared licenses?

I have purchases a fair amount of Pathfinder modules for HL but a number of my players can't afford everything I purchased. I tend to use stuff from everywhere which makes it next to impossible for those individuals to to use some of my files. I try, but it's hard to keep track of what they all have installed in HL.

Another thing I'd like to see would be the ability to synch Data folders by DM's. At the moment, those of my players who have the stuff I have all use Dropbox. Whenever I update my files, I drop them in a shared Dropbox folder. Then they copy / paste them in to their Game Data folders. :)

For my roomies, I just shared their Game Data folders and created links on my work system. Then update their folders when I know they have updated HL to the same version I am currently using. :)
 
Is there any plans to allow the purchasing of more than 2 additional licenses? Or introduce shared licenses?
Your in luck you can have 3 additional for a total of 5. :)

I have purchases a fair amount of Pathfinder modules for HL but a number of my players can't afford everything I purchased. I tend to use stuff from everywhere which makes it next to impossible for those individuals to to use some of my files. I try, but it's hard to keep track of what they all have installed in HL.
If talking about .user files you are in luck as that is exactly what Colen's new beta solves.

Another thing I'd like to see would be the ability to synch Data folders by DM's. At the moment, those of my players who have the stuff I have all use Dropbox. Whenever I update my files, I drop them in a shared Dropbox folder. Then they copy / paste them in to their Game Data folders. :)

For my roomies, I just shared their Game Data folders and created links on my work system. Then update their folders when I know they have updated HL to the same version I am currently using. :)
This is all built in already. Its called "Third Party Updates" and its the same thing that I use for the community.

In your case you can use the URL's from Dropbox to do it instead. When you release a new version to dropbox each person will get an update from HL saying a new version is out. They then download and install your new version.
 
Shadow:

I was hoping the new Beta would do that.

I haven't had my players upgrade to the Beta so I have to be careful what updates I send them because I am pretty sure that unless they have the Beta anything I do involving Extend Thing isn't goign to work.

As to using the Third Party Updates with Dropbox, do you have any links to sites explaining how to set that up? It would be wonderful. :)

BTW, when did HL get a 5th license?? I missed that bit of info . . .
 
Shadow, Shadow, Shadow . . . <cry>

I just went to the License site intending to pick up anotehr license, and it'll only let me have the original 2 that came with HL and the 2 I have already purchased. . . . :)
 
So go ahead and make a liar out of me I went into the license site a different way and it now shows an extra license for purchase . . .
 
Shadow, Shadow, Shadow . . . <cry>

I just went to the License site intending to pick up anotehr license, and it'll only let me have the original 2 that came with HL and the 2 I have already purchased. . . . :)
That could be a bug as I know its suppose to let you have 5. I have 5 in use and I am just a normal user like everyone else when it comes to licenses.

They increased the number after the iPad app came out. HERE is the link to the website where it clearly says "5".
 
Hero Lab is awesome.

The community is immense and very helpful.

You can play a ton of different games, and utilize Hero Lab for them.
In the past, they have asked for games that we would like to have Hero Lab support for, but do not currently have it; so if there is enough interest, it can expand for other games.

With the editor, you can input yourself a lot of the books, if you're willing to use your own 'elbow grease' and time.
Or you can purchase a data package, which is simple and already done, and comes with a great degree of support too.
Also, the Community Package has some third party supplements that are completely free, because members of the Hero Lab community donate their own time for the benefit of others; the Hero Lab experience is amazing.
Several third party publishers also have their own Hero Lab support; I have the Spheres of Power, 1,001 Spells, and FrogGodGames materials. The monthly newsletter inspired my contribution to a Cthulu style kickstarter, which while an interesting tool/option for my game, was primarily contributed to because it will have Hero Lab support, so I can use it seamlessly and easily within my games.

I'm the main Dungeon Master/Game Master for our group. A former player, used to be the DM/GM for alternate campaigns with myself, but he doesn't play any longer. Another current player has been (and is, for another group) a DM/GM too.
For characters in my game, I require the character to be Hero Lab legal, because I know the validation checks that things stack correctly. I build a copy of everyone's character (over the phone) on my desktop, and transfer that to my laptop which comes with me to our sessions. Two licenses are perfect for me.
Two of the players within my group have both downloaded the free version of Hero Lab, primarily from seeing what benefits I get out of it at our sessions; one of those players is planning on upgrading to their own license while the other just likes to build characters, but is not willing to fork over money at this time.
Another player in my group regularly calls me, because he wants build ideas and knows that I can type in 'Initiative' in the trait section and have Hero Lab list sixteen (I'm picking an arbitrary number here) traits that include that keyword... or he wants to know which archetypes a Barbarian can take, assuming they already have Urban... I can tell this player too, will be purchasing their own copy in the future.

The program is amazing, and that's not even getting into the editor aspect of it. With the editor you can do your own stuff, and all of the knowledge or editor-fu is available as a free resource and experimentation on your part. Building a world can be as fun as playing the world, and I suspect the editor is along those lines too.

While I won't necessarily use every aspect of the Pathfinder packages in my game, it's nice to have the full database available. I greatly enjoy the Hero Lab experience, and the purchase of all of the data packages essentially puts my money towards supporting a product I enjoy and wish to continue enjoying in the future.
 
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