Community Created 3.5 D&D data set....

[Kendall-DM]

Well, it's a two-fold process. I standardize the abilities and I standardize my coding. So, I have the standardized abilities (which is a beast still, as I have alot yet to do, it's difficult to divide my time such that I can get all that I want done) and a text file with all the standardized code with timing. I have yet another text file with all the tricks I can do with tags and fields for the things in HL.

What I can do, when I have the time, is make a thread will all my standardized stuff as I have it. I don't always stick to every standardization, as there are a few exceptions and occasionally its easier to combine the timing of things that don't conform to my text file, but overall it makes things much easier. I'll start another thread on this if you'd like to see it.

[mirtos]

thanks... i started reading it. interesting stuff.

[Kendall-DM]

Originally Posted by Kendall-DM

I could do it, but my main problems with that are I don't have a huge amount of time to do massive architecture of files, and I also have alot of work to do on my own game that has some homebrew stuff that is distinctly different than they are in 3.5. Another thing is, I have a completely different way of constructing the files from the way Aaron did them, like standardizing some of the Specials so that I didn't have to make whole new constructs of them (i.e. standardization speeds up the creation process). I'll take a deeper look at what Lawful_g/Aaron had done and see if I can keep with his process, and I may be able to, at the very least, take a stab at it.

Ok, I took a look at the d20 stuff, and I have to say, it's far more complex than anything I have done. There are a myriad of tags that I've had to track down, as well as a number of abilities, etc. that are spread out among the individual user files. By contrast, after all the work I've done, I've only had to make 7 total tags thus far.

One of the things that confused me, is the stuff that has been coded within the Render Phase. What is the Render Phase, what does it do, and why there (these were damage tags for types and damages).

I do commend the work that has been done, I've looked at a couple of things that are much better than what I have come up with (Ability Drain/Damage for example), so I'm going to take a closer look at those things. There are many things that I found that could be streamlined, or made less complex (at least at first lookover), but because I don't know all the interconnected stuff from the various user files, I'm not sure I'm seeing the whole picture. But I digress.

What this comes down to, is that I would love to work on the d20 files, but that I'm not sure what everything is doing yet. Furthermore, I'm not sure I would use the same methods on some abilities as the files currently have (though I wouldn't change what's already in the files), so I'm worried about compatibility down the line. Is there anyone that had documented the files, what each tag is doing, what each ability is referencing, etc? That would be a big help towards understanding it all without having to search multiple user files.

And, of course, once I decide to try to do this, I'll need goals, things that need to get done. That's about all I can do at the moment, but I do intend to try to finish the d20 files (insofar as they can be).

[Aaron]

Render is where names get created, basically. It is after all the calculations run in earlier phases.

If you need some guidance on how things work, I can explain what I was going for. Like you I was trying to simplify things (for example, making 1 version of grab), but the only tool I had to make them customizable were user tags. Therefore I was writing complex scripts in the render Phase to spit out a correct name based on a collection of tags applied by the bootstrapping thing (a race in the case of grab). Continueing with grab, I think I had tags that specified whether the creature could grab foes of their own size, or 1 size or 2 sizes bigger/smaller. Depending on the present tag, the Render script would detect the hero's currrent size, and then adjust that accordingly before appending the maximum size that could be grabbed. I also relied on the user making the monster to give it a livename specifying which natural attacks used grab when bootstrapping.

The result was something like "Grab: Bite or Claw (Medium)"

[ShadowChemosh]

Originally Posted by Kendall-DM

Is there anyone that had documented the files, what each tag is doing, what each ability is referencing, etc? That would be a big help towards understanding it all without having to search multiple user files.

You have to remember why Lawful_g was the biggest contributor he was not the only one. It was a combination of many. Some that stayed for awhile and others who added a single class and we never heard from them again. So no detailed documentation was ever created. Heck I never even got a FULL list of everything that is in the data set.

For my part I did the best I could getting a huge list of different Things from different authors and making sure they where at least compatible and tried to play nicely together. Plus tried to merge in each set of changes for each version and again tried to do testing to make sure things at a high level didn't break peoples characters after they installed or upgraded to a new version. Also trying to compile of a list of those changes so we had *some* documentation.

My point being that you have to remember where it came from was a group of different minds so a single train of thought or goal is not going to be really found.

[Kendall-DM]

Thanks Aaron, the Render Phase now makes some sense. You were making things easier on yourself by not having to repeat chunks of descriptive code, got it.

Thanks too ShadowChemosh, I knew there were many contributors and compilation of data is a nightmare, but I was hoping against hope that you had some sort of documentation on what did what. I may decide to go through and compile documentation so that file authors will know what is doing what and keep all our toes from getting smooshed.

Just an observation, creatures in D&D are far too diverse and far too complicated to assign tags and cover all your bases in an attempt to standardize a process. Eventually, you come across one that breaks the mold you created for it. It's far better to generalize the abilities, and add the specifics on each creature (when it's needed, it isn't always).

Now, that said, you've done some amazing things with some of the tags, things I never thought of doing (in general, I try to avoid using tags unless I need to), and I may have to rethink my current strategy if, in fact, those methods work better than mine. I, too, feel like I've done some amazing stuff in my files. Combined and documented, it should make for an interesting time. Stay tuned.

[ShadowChemosh]

Originally Posted by Kendall-DM

Now, that said, you've done some amazing things with some of the tags, things I never thought of doing (in general, I try to avoid using tags unless I need to), and I may have to rethink my current strategy if, in fact, those methods work better than mine. I, too, feel like I've done some amazing stuff in my files. Combined and documented, it should make for an interesting time. Stay tuned.

Speaking of Tags I have been able to create a file outside of the Editor that allows me to add new Tag Groups and IDs with descriptions. I do this for my personal data set for Pathfinder but don't see why it won't work for d20.

The big advantage I found by making Tag Groups is that it makes more sense when you have control of the Group and the Tag instead of everything being Custom.?. Plus having a central file control the Tags makes it easier to remove or change them if needed.

Could make the use of Tags nicer.

[Aaron]

Now that's a trick that would have been very useful, had I known about it at the time. As it is, there are about a Million different User tags that could be split into different groups.

[Kendall-DM]

Yes, of course, being able to define the tag and the groups would be immensely more useful without having to have User.? tags all over the place. Grouping would help to keep them organized.

[ShadowChemosh]

Originally Posted by Aaron

Now that's a trick that would have been very useful, had I known about it at the time. As it is, there are about a Million different User tags that could be split into different groups.

Its something I learned only in the last few months. But when I did I totally thought about how useful this would have been for you.

I can run a quick test later this week on d20 to make sure it works as well in d20 as it does in Pathfinder. Then I will a quick post about how to do it.