Enlarge Person on non-humanoids

[Jamz]

So, is it intentional that Hero Lab lets you put on spell adjustments like Enlarge Person on non humanoid races? (I'm sure there are other spells with similar adjustments as well)

I figured it would at least flag it?

[ShadowChemosh]

Originally Posted by Jamz

So, is it intentional that Hero Lab lets you put on spell adjustments like Enlarge Person on non humanoid races? (I'm sure there are other spells with similar adjustments as well)

I figured it would at least flag it?

Its called "Shadow Stupid!".

As the person who originally did lots of the spell adjustments I never thought to put a "warning message". I assumed incorrectly that gamers where smart enough to not apply the adjustment to the wrong type of creature.

Don't worry I have sense learned from this mistake and assume the above statements about gamers is not true!

Hehehe like I just insulted everyone including myself in one post!

Honestly never thought about it when scripting the adjustment and obviously whoever put into HL officially never really thought about it either. I was more worried about making sure the "changes" to the character where correct.

[Mathias]

What about spells like reduce animal, or the enlarge/reduce fey spells that are implied to exist by the "Targeting Fey" section (pg. 11) of The First World, Realm of the Fey? Why make users create a whole new adjustment in order to apply the identical effects of those spells, just because we've got very specific targeting requirements on the regular Enlarge Person spell adjustment?

What about adventure-specific effects that grant the effects of enlarge person to all characters who do some specific thing, regardless of whether they fit the Target information of the base spell?

[Minous]

I would say that having generic affects is preferred. There are at least half a dozen ways to get those spells on creatures that they shouldn't (IE summoner's eidolon) it is up to the players to exhibit minimal understanding of the rules.

[Kiirnodel]

The adjustments in Hero Lab apply the effects of the individual spells. Being a valid target of the spell is not required to have those effects applied to you. Having the spell successfully cast on you, yes, but just having the effects, no.

If a creature isn't a valid target for a spell, why are you adding the adjustment?

[ShadowChemosh]

Originally Posted by Kiirnodel

If a creature isn't a valid target for a spell, why are you adding the adjustment?

Because not ever gamer has the rules of the game memorized. They want HL to do all the "reminding" for them. You usually see this happen when a person is playing a Tiefling or Assamar which are actually outsiders not humanoid. To top it off the gamer may not even know "humanoid" is referring to a specific creature "Type" meaning they would assume that their Tiefling is a humanoid.

Those would be my guesses for why Enlarge person should warn about being applied to a incorrect creature type.

[Togainu]

But Shadow there are kinda too many exceptions look at the eidolon already mentioned here earlier or the share spell from familiars.

Share Spells: The wizard may cast a spell with a target of “You” on his familiar (as a touch spell) instead of on himself. A wizard may cast spells on his familiar even if the spells do not normally affect creatures of the familiar's type (magical beast).

And I am sure there are even more exceptions (like magical equipment allow you to enlarge using the same modifiers as enlarge person). Together with what Mathias already said I rather have it the way it is myself. Seeing throwing a warning would give valid targets a warning. Unless you plan to add every exception in there. The only thing I might consider is putting colored text in the adjustment to remind people of it.

[ShadowChemosh]

Those are exceptions to the core rule. So you would know to ignore the humanoid part. The easiest way is to then show the warning message before selecting the spell. But after its added to a character the adjustment is valid because a gamer added it to their character.

That would be the simple soultion here.

[Jamz]

This has came up because of our Oread Goliath Druid.

Add I agree that you *could* get the spell affect from a different source, but I would say more often than not most of the time you get things like "... As per the spell XYZ"

And we are only talking about adding a warning, not disallow the adjustment.

I would say this is only relevant to Spell adjustments and not the other adjustments as they are more generic.

And come on, if we could remember every Pathfinder rule, we wouldn't need Hero Lab half the time... Or group now has a saying "Hero Lab let me do it..." And unfortunately our go to response is "that doesn't mean it's right..."

@Shadow I had a "slap my hand on the forehead" moment when a player said he found a meta magic that allowed him to adjust any first level spell to a zero level... We tried to tell him it didn't exist until he showed us...turned out it was the +/- level adjustments if your files. Proof that if you build it, they will click it...

I suppose you could have the adjustments have the "show available" drop down like feats, hide/show legal adjustments.

[Togainu]

Jamz I know you are talking about the warning adding only not disallowing it. But let's take a familiar for example. They are legal targets as per the share spell. They will get a warning in the setup you are requesting.

As I said myself I am fine with a warning before adding it to yourself. By as my example gave adding colored text or what Shadow said a warning before adding it to your character. But I don't agree with Hero Lab giving a warning after adding it to your character. Seeing there are too many exception making it still legal on none humanoids. And than all those legal choices and up with a unwarranted warning