Pathfinder Bug Reports - Version 6.7

[ShadowChemosh]

Originally Posted by Pezmerga

It only counts Racial HD, not class levels.

Where did you see that rule as its not listed with the Nymph and there are no Universal Monster rule for those abilities. The default rules for monsters DC is in the monster creation section of the bestiary: "The DC for almost all special abilities is equal to 10 + 1/2 the creature's Hit Dice + a relevant ability modifier (usually Constitution or Charisma depending on the ability)."

There are a few Universal Monster Abilities that do appear to use Racial HD only, like Breath Weapon, but most use the 10+1/2HD+Ability Modifier. So where do you see that its Racial HD only for the Nymph's abilities?

[Aaron]

Hah! The day is mine!

*Does the "Caught up on the bug thread" Dance*

Marking here as the point to which I have either solved or recorded the bugs for later work.

[ShadowChemosh]

Originally Posted by Aaron

Hah! The day is mine!

*Does the "Caught up on the bug thread" Dance*

Marking here as the point to which I have either solved or recorded the bugs for later work.

Sweet!

You know though Mathias use to individually answer each post so people knew what was fixed and what was on the to-do list.

[Pezmerga]

Originally Posted by ShadowChemosh

Where did you see that rule as its not listed with the Nymph and there are no Universal Monster rule for those abilities. The default rules for monsters DC is in the monster creation section of the bestiary: "The DC for almost all special abilities is equal to 10 + 1/2 the creature's Hit Dice + a relevant ability modifier (usually Constitution or Charisma depending on the ability)."

There are a few Universal Monster Abilities that do appear to use Racial HD only, like Breath Weapon, but most use the 10+1/2HD+Ability Modifier. So where do you see that its Racial HD only for the Nymph's abilities?

Well, I asked on Paizo forums.
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards...ource=search#4

I know James Jacobs said he doesn't make official rulings, but I don't think he made one, just confirmed one. It makes sense to me. Class abilities only go off the class that grants them so why wouldn't Racial abilities? Just give a Nymph additional HD or higher charisma if you want them to have a stronger DC.

[ShadowChemosh]

Originally Posted by Pezmerga

Well, I asked on Paizo forums.
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards...ource=search#4

I know James Jacobs said he doesn't make official rulings, but I don't think he made one, just confirmed one. It makes sense to me. Class abilities only go off the class that grants them so why wouldn't Racial abilities? Just give a Nymph additional HD or higher charisma if you want them to have a stronger DC.

Well ask JJ in a month and you will get a different answer. I know it sounds mean but he has done it before to LW. They inputted a ruling about Half-Dragons based on his ruling and then a month later when asked he said the exact opposite answer.

The issue is that the General rule I quoted is from the bestiary and it lists Hit Dice not Racial Hit Dice. Class levels count as hit dice. I am not actually saying which way makes more sense just that HL has to go by the rules as written. If an FAQ or errata comes out that is different.

So just giving an FYI is all....

If I have time later I can find the Half-Dragon breath weapon ruling that he flipped flopped on when asked again a month later.

[Pezmerga]

Originally Posted by ShadowChemosh

Well ask JJ in a month and you will get a different answer. I know it sounds mean but he has done it before to LW. They inputted a ruling about Half-Dragons based on his ruling and then a month later when asked he said the exact opposite answer.

The issue is that the General rule I quoted is from the bestiary and it lists Hit Dice not Racial Hit Dice. Class levels count as hit dice. I am not actually saying which way makes more sense just that HL has to go by the rules as written. If an FAQ or errata comes out that is different.

So just giving an FYI is all....

If I have time later I can find the Half-Dragon breath weapon ruling that he flipped flopped on when asked again a month later.

We do have examples in published material though to be fair. Like the Nymph in Kingmaker AP 6 does only count her Racial HD for her abilities, despite being a 24 HD Creature because of class levels is just one example. I think that sets a precedence...I could look for more examples if it is needed though.

[Mathias]

Originally Posted by Pezmerga

We do have examples in published material though to be fair. Like the Nymph in Kingmaker AP 6 does only count her Racial HD for her abilities, despite being a 24 HD Creature because of class levels is just one example. I think that sets a precedence...I could look for more examples if it is needed though.

Sorry, but given the number of errors that have been noticed in adventure path material over the years, I don't give NPC and monster statblocks in an adventure path much weight in a rules argument.

[ShadowChemosh]

Originally Posted by Pezmerga

We do have examples in published material though to be fair. Like the Nymph in Kingmaker AP 6 does only count her Racial HD for her abilities, despite being a 24 HD Creature because of class levels is just one example. I think that sets a precedence...I could look for more examples if it is needed though.

The problem with that is we have to "assume" its correct in the first place. Being that Bestiary monsters from AP have "large" number of mistakes using a AP monster as the example is not a good idea. Also we have AP material that shows that one can Vital Strike and Spring Attack but that has been clearly stated as a NO in the errata.

Here is a Vampire that has 8 sorcerer levels and her Energy Drain ability is listed with a DC22 = (10+1/2HD (4) + CHA(8)). Energy Drain specifically says "Racial HD" but yet the class levels of Sorcerer where clearly used to calc the DC.

So we can go back and forth with monsters that have it calculated both ways. In the end the bestiary lists the rule and that is what HL is following.

And I have no control over what LW does I was just pointing out the rules that are part of the Bestiary. If you can find rules that say "racial HD" is the generic/default way to calc abilities then awesome and show them to Mathias.

[Pezmerga]

Originally Posted by ShadowChemosh

The problem with that is we have to "assume" its correct in the first place. Being that Bestiary monsters from AP have "large" number of mistakes using a AP monster as the example is not a good idea. Also we have AP material that shows that one can Vital Strike and Spring Attack but that has been clearly stated as a NO in the errata.

Here is a Vampire that has 8 sorcerer levels and her Energy Drain ability is listed with a DC22 = (10+1/2HD (4) + CHA(8)). Energy Drain specifically says "Racial HD" but yet the class levels of Sorcerer where clearly used to calc the DC.

So we can go back and forth with monsters that have it calculated both ways. In the end the bestiary lists the rule and that is what HL is following.

And I have no control over what LW does I was just pointing out the rules that are part of the Bestiary. If you can find rules that say "racial HD" is the generic/default way to calc abilities then awesome and show them to Mathias.

Vampire is a template, which would function differently (for instance, Humans don't have Racial Hit dice, they progress in Class Levels.), but I see your point...

Though I will point out that it says MOST special abilities use 10 + 1/2 HD + ability modifier.

However, I look at this from Universal Monster Rules.
"Monsters should use abilities from the Universal Monster Rules whenever possible, instead of creating new yet similar abilities—when you do create new abilities, use the Universal Monster Rules as a template for how to present and create the new abilities."

Stunning Glance is one of the Nymph Abilities in question. It functions as a Gaze attack that is activated, stated here:

"A creature with a gaze attack can actively gaze as an attack action by choosing a target within range. That opponent must attempt a saving throw but can try to avoid this as described above. Thus, it is possible for an opponent to save against a creature’s gaze twice during the same round, once before the opponent’s action and once during the creature’s turn."

Blinding Beauty works as a Passive Gaze attack.

Here it has the rules for a Gaze attack DC.

"A gaze attack takes effect when foes look at the attacking creature’s eyes. The attack can have any sort of effect; petrification, death, and charm are common. The typical range is 30 feet. The type of saving throw for a gaze attack is usually a Will or Fortitude save (DC 10 + the 1/2 gazing creature’s racial HD + the gazing creature’s Cha modifier; the exact DC is given in the creature’s text)."

All of this was taken from Monster Creation and Universal Monster Rules.

Sorry not trying to be a pain, but I do sincerely believe that the DC for the Nymphs gaze attacks are racial HD based. Yes I also realize that this would have to be a case by case basis for every monster's special attack...though most the abilities on the Universal Monster Rules page do say Racial hit dice.

[evilash]

The saurian shaman gets saurian wild shape 1/day at level 2. Instead he should get ordinary wild shape 1/day at level 4, and then at level 6 it should change to saurian wild shape (+2 levels for dinosaurs, -2 levels for others).