Starfinder announced

[LazarX]

Originally Posted by ShadowChemosh

Nice!

I just get these strange ideas of Demons with Lazer Guns!

I defy anything to be stranger than Raven McCracken's Synnibarr, where winged grizzlies with laser beams coming out of their eyes were just the opening round.

[charlieluce]

Originally Posted by Xorial

This is what I was thinking would have to happen. Personally, I would rather it would be this way. Less hacking of the system to shoe-horn a mechanic into it.

It's possible, I guess, that the changes to Starfinder would be on the order of, say, Pathfinder Unchained in difficulty to add to the existing Pathfinder system, but realistically it's going to be months before Lone Wolf knows for sure.

[ShadowChemosh]

Originally Posted by rob

This is the understanding we got out of a short briefing from Paizo. Our expectation is that there will be a lot of similarities, but there will also be some stark differences to better tailor the game to the needs of the SciFi setting. For a sense of the adaptations we're anticipating (we don't know any details at this point), look at some of the changes Wizards and Fantasy Flight made when adapting existing systems to Star Wars. So we are currently expecting that there will be an independent game system within Hero Lab to allow us to optimally support the deviations introduced in StarFinder.

I have to totally disagree and hope this is NOT the case at all. I don't see many if any mechanical changes required for Starfinder to work. Its already said to be 100% backwards compatible and Paizo wants to be able to use existing Bestiary books. Paizo is not WotC so I don't see them requiring people to rebuy all new books to support this which is what WotC always did. Paizo had previously said that creating such a rift in the player base is a bad business design that they where not interested in supporting.

Paizo wants to make sure that all the books I have on my shelf are usable out the door. So new skills, new feats, some new class ideas. But the mention of AC as a change could be a total re-write like they did for Ultimate Combat to something as small as a new bonus type that adds to all three AC values. Just because people "want" a rewrite of Pathfinder does not mean that is what they are getting.

We will know more in the future but I honestly see the changes the same as Unchained and Ultimate Combat's "Optional" rules. Those have different AC designs and small tweaks like that can be rolled into HL easily.

Big issues with two different game systems is what happens when I want to use a B1 Monster in Starfinder? Is LW going to require everyone rebuy every Pathfinder book in Starfinder again? I can't see people liking that idea at all even myself. =( So for those that are asking LW to make a new game system it means that your existing .user files and Bestiary Monsters are not usable. All those Encounter Builder tools would no longer have that HUGE list of monsters to pull from. Please keep this in mind when asking LW to make a new game system.

I have to say if I am wrong and this is Pathfinder 2.0 and Starfinder requires a whole new version of HL I mostly likely will never switch to it. My players are too busy and too stuck now to want to learn a new system that is close but has lots of little changes. Oh well...

[rob]

*NONE* of us have actually seen anything concrete at this point. Based on our understanding, Paizo has a number of conflicting priorities here. Yes, they want to reuse all the existing monsters. But does that mean that the monsters have to be left untouched? Or can there be a formalized set of transforms applied to convert them? Probably including some GM-ruled fuzziness in various places. Paizo also wants to tailor the rules better to the setting. Somehow, I'm guessing that the concept of Armor Class is probably going to translate poorly in a world of laser guns, so some things will have to change. That's why I pointed out the previous adaptations of major fantasy game systems to Star Wars as examples of changes that have come before.

Nobody knows what will/won't be changing at this point. My understanding is that even Paizo has some big questions to officially resolve, since there is still a YEAR of further development of the game to complete. So we don't know yet. It's pointless to weigh in with lobbying and opinions this point, except as an exercise in tilting at windmills.

At the end of the day, we're going to do this in a way that allows us to best support the game. Whatever way that ends up being won't be known for a long time still.

[ShadowChemosh]

Originally Posted by rob

*NONE* of us have actually seen anything concrete at this point. Based on our understanding, Paizo has a number of conflicting priorities here. Yes, they want to reuse all the existing monsters. But that does NOT mean that the monsters have to be left untouched? Or can there be a formalized set of transforms applied to convert them? Probably included some GM-ruled fuzziness in various places. Paizo also wants to tailor the rules better to the setting. Somehow, I'm guessing that the concept of Armor Class is probably going to translate poorly in a world of laser guns, so something will have to change. That's why I pointed out the previous adaptations of major fantasy game systems to Star Wars as examples of changes that have come before.

Nobody knows what will/won't be changing at this point. My understanding is that even Paizo has some big questions to officially resolve, since there is still a YEAR of further development of the game to complete. So we don't know yet. It's pointless to weigh in with lobbying and opinions this point, except as an exercise in tilting at windmills.

At the end of the day, we're going to do this in a way that allows us to best support the game. Whatever way that ends up being won't be known for a long time still.

I guess we agree to disagree here is all. Which is totally fine as I can still respect you without agreeing with you. I say that based on your above showing examples of other systems with huge changes from normal d20 rules for SyFy. Maybe it will be a massive system change.

I think everyone is too use to how WotC does games and are expecting Pathfinder 2.0. Paizo has been very clear over the years for rules like Epic & psionics of how they will get implemented. But people still only heard what they wanted to hear and where upset when Mythic and Occult came out. I think the same is happening here with everyone reading into things and not listening to what Paizo has been saying for years.

Time will tell I guess....

[rob]

Originally Posted by ShadowChemosh

Time will tell I guess....

That's exactly what I'm trying to counsel here.

All we have right now is pure conjecture. Your arguments are sound. So are mine. Yet they are conflicting, because Paizo has to resolve some major differences between the settings.

Let's wait until we have concrete information to debate this further. Once we have that information, Lone Wolf will choose a path forward (or is that "star" now?) for the data files that makes the most sense based on how Paizo has chosen to actually do things.

[ShadowChemosh]

Originally Posted by rob

Let's wait until we have concrete information to debate this further.

Doesn't that defeat the whole purpose of a internet forum?

Originally Posted by rob

(or is that "star" now?)

I assume you mean Star Wolf as Lone Star is a restaurant. Personally I like "Space Wolf" better! Especially Space Wolves with fracking plasma cannons!

[Aaron]

Originally Posted by ShadowChemosh

I assume you mean Star Wolf as Lone Star is a restaurant. Personally I like "Space Wolf" better! Especially Space Wolves with fracking plasma cannons!

Don't mention them around Magnus, unless you want him seeing red.

[frumple]

Sitting in SFO on my way back fro PaizoCon. Just thought I would throw in my $0.02.

From what the folks at Paizo said things are very preliminary at this point. They did say if it is a choice between making Starfinder 100% backwards compatible to Pathfinder but making Starfinder less of the game they want they are willing to sacrifice compatibility. However, they want to keep things as compatible as possible. This is mainly going to be focused on the monsters, but if you want to play an elven paladin in power armor with a laser gattling gun, you can do that as well. There will be new classes specifically for the SciFi genre including one called the Solarian which is tied to the lifestages of stars and can manipulate plasma and gravity. They claim it will be unlike any other class we have seen.

Again, it is very early so things may (and probably will) change.

[DeltaMasterMind]

Originally Posted by Aaron

Don't mention them around Magnus, unless you want him seeing red.

SPACE WOLVES! (alot of screaming and rage insues)