Scorpion Whip vs Cold Iron [bug?]

[geekomancer]

I'm trying to create a Cold Iron Scorpion whip, but it doesn't validate in HL.

Originally Posted by PFSRD

"Items without metal parts cannot be made from cold iron."

but

Originally Posted by PFSRD

"This whip has a series of razorsharp blades and fangs inset along its tip."

Sounds to me like a metal part. Can someone please explain why this is illegal? (Or update HL with a fix?)

please forgive me if I missed this.... I tried searching for previously reported threads or bugs, and didn't find any mention of this.

[Dami]

Neither the handle, nor the bulk of the actual whip would be made of metal. It looks like a few metal bits (the "blades") aren't enough to be considered metal parts, just like a club ("sometimes with a few nails, or studs in it" - Ultimate Equipment) isn't considered to have metal parts. You could ask on the Paizo forums or see if they make any suggestions, but it doesn't sound like a bug/error to me.

[ShadowChemosh]

Remember HL does not stop you from breaking the rules. It gives "warning" messages not hard stop. So if your DM agrees that a scorpion whip can be cold iron then make it cold iron and ignore the warning message.

[geekomancer]

Originally Posted by Dami

Neither the handle, nor the bulk of the actual whip would be made of metal.

RAW is very clear. "Metal parts", not handle or bulk of material. Arrows, for example, can be cold iron, even though neither the handle (shaft) nor bulk of material is metal.

The spirit of special material is that the material cuts or touches the skin of the affected creature. In the case of the scorpion whip, it does lethal damage instead of non-lethal because of those metal parts, so why couldn't those metal parts be made from special materials?

Anyway, thanks for your reply. I will ask the same question over at Paizo....

Originally Posted by ShadowChemosh

... then make it cold iron and ignore the warning message.

Yes, but OCD!

[Togainu]

I think this mainly comes down to table variation more than anything else myself. For example you have the Stinging whip which can be used as a whip and actually states it is made out of metallic wire. This one is also allowed in hero lab for example to take cold iron as special material (and is also society legal for example)

[Minous]

The issue is the material of the haft never really matters. When using an arrow the arrowhead is the only special material that matters because that is the primary damage dealing part of the weapon. With a Whip most of the damage is coming from the cord the whip is made from. Yes you might be able to add broken bits to the end to increase the damage slightly, but it doesn't change the primary weapon material.

[Ualaa]

The other option, if you think this is a bug and that it should be allowed, you can report it as such.

[Azhrei]

Originally Posted by Minous

... With a Whip most of the damage is coming from the cord the whip is made from. ...

Not necessarily. The tip of a bullwhip is totally the damage inflicting element of the weapon. When the whip is "cracked" (as in, 'crack the whip'), the tip moves faster than the speed of sound, which is what makes the cracking noise. Something that hits your skin at 720+ mph (speed of sound at sea level) is going to hurt!

Which is one of my beefs with how WotC and then Paizo treat the whip. They clearly based its offensive capabilities on Hollywood's depiction from movies like Indiana Jones, but doing real damage with a whip is certainly not non-lethal damage! Of course, you must be at precisely the right distance to use the tip and perhaps the rules would get kind of confusing about that so it was left out...? For example, "there must be exactly 15' between attacker and target with NO intervening cover." You certainly couldn't use it through an arrow slit (although the existing rules allow it, IIRC).