License Problems

[chiefweasel]

Hey all, I am having some issues with my license. I curently have 3 of them in use, one for my desktop, one foe my netwbook, and one on the mac i run. It seems that everytime there is an update to PF, fone of the systems I am using, i get locked out because of the 60 re-activation limit. This also happen on each device.

So the process i go through it to have one license reactivated by contacted LW. Then when i reactivate my other machines I get locked out again.

So with every patch that LW puts out means I need to reactivate my license, and means that it will not work for afew days due to the 60 day lockout, so again each time i need to contact LW and have them reset the license for me. And this ocurs 3 times with each update, once for each machine i am running.

Now i fully understand the reason for the proces, whcih is to protect against piracy. But it also seems to be having some negitive effects on the loyal user community.

With this in mind:

1 - Is there a way to ensure that the license can be reactivated a few times before it fails?
2 - Is there a scheduling method that could be used by LW so that new patches dont go out on firday/saturday? Other wise the program becomes unusable for weekend games.
3 - Is there a way to grant full usage to those folks who have been loyal to the product, say after owning the license for 2 years or something, and have it so that it doesnt go to demo mode? (I would even pay extra for something like this)
4 - Is they a way to faster way to resolve this problem? Maybe an automated process where the user answers questions or uses and different code, like an RSA token, something like that?
5 - Could a warning message be provided as part of the update to inform users that the update requires that the license be reactivated as part of the update. that way the user could decide not to update and thus lose access to HL for a few days.
6 - Maybe have someone else who has access to the system and can make the changes to the license on the weekends.
7 - Maybe create a batch process that runs every so often. a user can submit a specific bit of information whcih gets them into that que. then somone at LW could check the batch file every so often and just click a yes or no and then run the batch file.

I had plenty of time to write this today since my weekend game for my 8 player group was cancelled. It seems that all our licenses have become unuable after the patch.

Any help here would be appreciated, and I know a one time shot can be correct. I am thinking more of the longer term process.

Sorry to vent about al this but in the last few months i have had to had my licenses reactivated multiple times. it seems that once you get out of sync the problem cascades and becomes worse.

Thanks.

[Mathias]

The behavior you're experiencing is not normal.

For each of your copies, go to the Help menu, and choose "About Hero Lab" - among the information that pops up, check the "License Number" - are any of your copies sharing a license number? They're not supposed to be.

[Colen]

I just checked your license on our server, and it looks like you have a limit of 3 secondary licenses, but only 2 licenses actually issued. Your primary license number is being used on two computers - that's why you're being asked to reauthorize every time you use it.

Each license number can only be used on a single computer. Find out which two of your computers are using the same license number - on one of those, go to the License menu and choose Obtain Secondary License. You'll be issued a third license number, which you should use on that computer. After that, everything should work fine because each license number is only used on a single computer.

Hope this helps!

[Random]

All the same though...the rest of his observations are valid. I ran the patch on my desktop because I was sitting there when I saw it. I then went and started my laptop. Sadly I started them in the wrong order...because my desktop finished and works great. Unfortunately I can no longer use my laptop for gaming over the weekend because it triggers the lockout and I have to send an email and wait. Had I realized before I started that this update would trigger this effect, I would have at least ran it on my laptop first so as to be able to take it with me still. It does seem, however that there should be a way for your system to recognize my 2 computers and allow it to go through so that this doesn't happen with such regularity.

[Duggan]

{nods} As much as anything the patch timing might be a good idea too. Putting it right before a weekend does give you 2-3 days of intensive usage to ferret out remaining bugs in the update, but it also puts people in an awkward situation if something goes wrong with their license. License problems are rare, but they do seem to most often happen after an update (presumably in part because that's when they must re-validate) and it may make sense to delay a patch by a few days to release it on Monday so that 2-3 business days stays 2-3 days rather than potentially 4-5.

[ShadowChemosh]

As an FYI there is nothing that forces you to updated HL or HL data sets. Personally I try and NOT have my players update just before a game. Though I have learned there is something so enticing to update that most people can't stop themselves.

Or at least my players can't stop themselves....

[chiefweasel]

I wont be bale to get the license information. My Mac is in the shop and i sould have it back in a day or 2. I think that my netbook is the same license as my desktop, but not sure. its the code i was given when i requested a seconday license. I am unable to look at the license on my desktop, in demo mode it says that it has no license.

i did purchase a 3rd secondary license for the Mac not too long ago, but i know that before it went into the shop it had the same problem, the license had issues with an update. i know at the moment that it is also stuff in the re-activate problem. i think it happened a few weeks ago with the last HL update. when i reactivated my license there it died and went into demo mode as well.

i dont know if this is a problem for others, but with each patch that LW puts out i have to re-activate my license. i can see this process for when i get a new package. When i re-activate my license for each patch, which are more often then 60 days, i run into the 60 day re-activation issue.

[rob]

I'll direct you back to Colen's post. The reason this is a problem for you is that you have two different computers sharing the *same* license number, which is a no-no. If you were properly using a different license number on each computer, there would be *no* problems.

When you purchased the secondary license for your Mac, did you follow the instructions and obtain a *new* license number for that computer? Our server says you didn't, since you currently have only *two* licenses issued to you and they are both from 2008. This third license is available but has never been used. What appears to have happened is that you cut a corner and simply re-used one of your existing two licenses on the Mac instead of properly obtaining the new license number. This is the source of all your frustrations.

According to our server, the license number ending in 2K5 is the one you have re-used on two different machines. This can be *quickly* and *easily* corrected by you simply doing the steps that you were supposed to have done previously. Go to the License menu and select Obtain Secondary License. Get the new license number issued and use it from this day forward on one of the two computers where you are currently using 2K5. After that, you won't run into any of these problems again, as long as you continue using a *different* license number on *each* computer.

Hope this helps...

[rob]

Below are my quick thoughts on each of the questions you posed above....

Originally Posted by chiefweasel

1 - Is there a way to ensure that the license can be reactivated a few times before it fails?

If we required users to be online all the time, then this would make sense. Since users can run offline for any length of time after activation, this approach creates huge holes in the mechanism.

Originally Posted by chiefweasel

2 - Is there a scheduling method that could be used by LW so that new patches dont go out on firday/saturday? Other wise the program becomes unusable for weekend games.

The patches currently go out whenever they're ready. Sometimes, it's early in the week, and other times its late in the week. Heck, we release stuff on the weekends, too! So there's no official policy here. If there's enough of an outcry, we can always do releases early in the week. However, that means if a release slips by a day or two, then it waits another full week. Since our goal is to get stuff into the hands of users as quickly as we can, I'm guessing there will be a fair number of users who would rather have updates sooner as opposed to later. So I'm pretty sure this is an issue where we're never going to make *everyone* happy. :-(

Originally Posted by chiefweasel

3 - Is there a way to grant full usage to those folks who have been loyal to the product, say after owning the license for 2 years or something, and have it so that it doesnt go to demo mode? (I would even pay extra for something like this)

And how would that work with respect to the licensing? It would require that we provide an unlocked copy of the software to people. Once that's out, there's nothing stopping *one* unscrupulous user (or his roommate, or his sibling, or someone he lets borrow his computer for 5 minutes) from sharing it with the world. At that point, it's game over for us and we close up shop on the product, since it's been given away to the world. This is a nice idea in concept, but it's far from a realistic solution.

Originally Posted by chiefweasel

4 - Is they a way to faster way to resolve this problem? Maybe an automated process where the user answers questions or uses and different code, like an RSA token, something like that?

That's theoretically workable, but it would require a significant amount of work to setup and then would require users to be more savvy about stuff as well. While many of our users are technically quite savvy, there are just as many (probably the majority) who are just the opposite. Any solution we come up with has to be easily usable by those with no technical knowledge. Solving this would entail lots of work to accomplish, which means time *not* spent furthering the development of Hero Lab, data files, Realm Works, etc. We've already had to suspend work on Tournament Ace due to insufficient staffing to get everything done, and something like this would simply increase the impact on our forward progress. So how important is something like this? And to how many users?

Originally Posted by chiefweasel

5 - Could a warning message be provided as part of the update to inform users that the update requires that the license be reactivated as part of the update. that way the user could decide not to update and thus lose access to HL for a few days.

*Every* product update requires license reactivation. Data file updates do not. If you are prompted to update the product to a new version, you will always need to reactivate your license upon completion. That's a pretty simple distinction that you can always rely on. How many users out there think that prominently pointing out this requirement would be beneficial? If there's a good number, we can add it.

Originally Posted by chiefweasel

6 - Maybe have someone else who has access to the system and can make the changes to the license on the weekends.

The license reactivation queue *is* generally monitored over the weekend. That's not always the case, but probably 48 weeks a year the queue is checked at least once over the weekend. The general support queue is more of a 50/50 chance whether it's checked over the weekend, but the license reactivation queue gets priority (i.e. those who use the special form that's accessible from the license reactivation wizard).

Originally Posted by chiefweasel

7 - Maybe create a batch process that runs every so often. a user can submit a specific bit of information whcih gets them into that que. then somone at LW could check the batch file every so often and just click a yes or no and then run the batch file.

I don't understand this one. Could you please explain this to me?

[chiefweasel]

Hey Rob,

I'll look into getting a new secondary license. But this process has caused the same problem with the three machines i have, not just the license. The 2k5 number is on my netbook and maybe my desktopm, i wont be able to determine that until the license is made valid. But i am having the exact same problem with my Mac license as well. the last patch, not the one last night, caused the exact same error because i had to reactivate the account due to packages and patches that i had purchased. So the issue is larger then having the same license on 2 machines.

As for using the same license. I will try to find the email i received with the code in it when i got the secondary license. Not sure where it is now though.

With regard to #5 above, I have to disagree with you on that one. I know I, and the folks who play in my group, have to do a license re-activates with every update and purchase. I fact my Mac is locked up because i got a few packages when i got home from Gen Con. (I just hadn't updated it in a while since i dont use it an awful lot). maybe the two types of events occur hand in hand a lot, i dont know but i have to re-activate anytime there is a change to the program.sometimes the process goes fine, but most of the time it doesnt.

for item #2, i would like to throw my vote to only doing releases on a specific day. i would rather have to take a few days to work out any problems than not be able to use the program when i need it for my weekend games.

for item #7, i was just musing about some sort of batch process that the users could just put in something to indicate they were having a problem. something besides an email.

now before other folks jump into the fray, i just want to say that i am still a huge fan of the HL product and support it as best i can. i'm not trying to a jerk or anything, just seeing folks, and myself included, running into issues around the license and as always i try to find solutions as best i can. thanks.