Is there a group ID for Tertiary Bonus Feats?

[Eilserves]

As the subject indicates, I'm trying to figure out if there is a group ID for Tertiary Bonus Feats. I'm trying to fix the "Style Master" Talent for the Talented Monk in the Community Packages, and have been unable to do so, mostly because a lot of the follow-up feats in the style trees are not listed as "Style" feats. This is an issue with the actual Paizo source material, not a failing on Hero Lab's part, but it prevents simply setting the "Style Feats" as an option for Bonus Tertiary Feats. And that list is limited to 40 entries, but there are about 171 that qualify for this talent.

[Quintain]

There aren't "tertiary bonus feats" insofar as I can tell -- at least not directly. You'd need to make a tertiary custom ability that allows you to select a bonus feat.

I pulled this code from the Arcanist Exploit "Greater Metamagic Knowledge" which does essentially what you are looking to do.

      ~ If we're disabled, just get out now
      doneif (tagis[Helper.SpcDisable] <> 0)

      linkage[table].field[cBonFtMax].value += 1

This may or may not be what you are looking for.

[Eilserves]

I have a script for the Style Master Talent that is working, to a degree.

      ~ if we've been disabled, get out now &
      doneif (tagis[Helper.SpcDisable] <> 0)

      ~ Give a bonus Tertiary Feat
      linkage[table].field[cTBonFtMax].value += 1

This properly increments the amount of Tertiary Bonus Feats available on the Class Tab. On the class entry in the Editor I've selected "Tert. Category: Combat Style" and this properly brings up the list of feats marked as Style Feats, such as Crane Style.

I haven't yet figured out how to make it actually work the way the Master of Many Styles combat feats do, however, and the script on that archetype isn't much help.

But since I'm going to be, mostly likely, having to extend all the feats that aren't marked as "Style" feats in the chains (Crane Wing, Crane Riposte to continue the example above) it occurs to me I can just extend them to the Style category by using group ID fCategory and tag ID Style.

Still a lot of feats to extend, but that will address the issue of them not showing up. Now to just figure out how to get the "Base" Style feats to ignore pre-reqs except Elemental Fist and/or Race. Thanks for responding!

[Quintain]

Note that a lot of feats that are part of a "Style Feat Chain" are not actually style feats.

Example: Grabbing Style is a style feat -- but the Grabbing Drag feat is not a style feat, it is just a combat feat.

[Eilserves]

Yes, which is what I had listed as an issue with the Paizo material. But for the purposes of the Master of Many Styles, they are valid feats. Getting them as valid feats for this Talent that replicates that ability from MoMS... extending them as "style" feats seems the most reliable path. I could make a new feat category, possibly, and extend them into that instead, and use it for the talent. This particular aspect of the class is turning into a bit of a PITA.

[ShadowChemosh]

MoMs was specially implemented. I would recommend looking over the script logic of the MoMS archetype to see how LW did it.

I about guarantee you will have to play with the custom expression logic to get this to work correctly.

[ShadowChemosh]

Here is the script logic from the archetype. Note this happens from an archetype meaning you can't use linkage[varies] if you are a class special or a custom ability.

Assuming you running from a custom ability you will need to use linkage[table] instead.

Post-Level/10000

      doneif (islinkage[varies] = 0)

      perform linkage[varies].delete[BonusFor.Monk1]
      perform linkage[varies].delete[BonusFor.Monk6]
      perform linkage[varies].delete[BonusFor.Monk10]
      perform linkage[varies].delete[BonusFor.Monk14]

      ~ We can only add style feats if we possess the previous ones in the
      ~ chain. Thus we can't grant them all without regard to all prereq (or
      ~ it'd be possible to skip to the end), and so we have to generate the
      ~ options for bonus feats here.

      ~ New and improved handling of the Master of Many Styles:
      ~ Previously, the Master of Many Styles was handled by a long list
      ~ of if statements that added fInclude tags if the character had a specific feat.
      ~ This was a big mess and hard to maintain and debug.
      ~ This new version uses tag to handle it in an automated way that should be
      ~ a lot less trouble to debug and maintain.
      ~ What it does is loop through the monk bonus feats on the character and pull the
      ~ fMoMSNext tags to the archetype as fInclude tags. It then pushes them to the
      ~ monk class to be used in the normal bonus feat tag experession mechanism.

      ~First, loop through our feats and pull the fMoMSNext tags here as fInclude feats
      foreach pick in hero from BaseFeat where "fMoMSNext.?"
        perform eachpick.pulltags[fMoMSNext.?,fInclude]
        nexteach

      ~ Push the tags for the unlocked feats to the linked class
      perform linkage[varies].pushtags[fInclude.?]

      ~ Some style feat chains break the normal rules for Master of Many Styles
      ~ Elemental fist, for example, is required before you can take Djinn Style,
      ~ Efreet Style, Marid Style, or Shaitan style. We handle that here.
      ~ This also applies to cases where all the feats in a chain are marked as
      ~ style feats, but Master of Many Styles still requires that the feats in
      ~ the chain be taken in order. For example, the Perfect Style feats from
      ~ Inner Sea Combat

      var tagexpr as string

      ~ Our search expression is built on feats we don't have, that have
      ~ fMoMSPrecl tags
      tagexpr = "!(" & hero.tagids[HasFeat.?, " | "] & ") & fMoMSPrecl.?"

      ~ Search for feats we don't have that unlock other feats
      foreach thing in BaseFeat where tagexpr

        ~Pull their tags here as fExclude tags
        perform eachthing.pulltags[fMoMSPrecl.?,fExclude]
        nexteach

      ~ Push the tags for the forbidden feats to the linked class
      perform linkage[varies].pushtags[fExclude.?]

      ~ If this hero has access to the Weapon Master's Handbook, then we need to
      ~ add some warning text to our bonus feats because:
      ~ "Class features that allow a character to ignore the prerequisites of
      ~ feats when selecting them (such as the master of many styles monk
      ~ archetype’s bonus feat ability) can’t ignore the racial trait
      ~ prerequisites of a racial style feat."
      linkage[varies].field[cBonFtTxt].text = "Racial Style feats cannot ignore the pre-reqs of racial traits."

[ShadowChemosh]

Originally Posted by Eilserves

Style Master has made some progress. I could not get it to work by putting the script into the class ability, even changing perform linkage[varies] to perform linkage[table]. Instead I put a modified version of the Master of Many Styles script into the class.

If you put this into a Class Ability it was the wrong location. I mentioned "Custom Ability" which is totally different than Class Ability. This script can not be placed on a class. Please move to a Custom Ability and then linkage[table] will work.

Originally Posted by Eilserves

I also had to add a tag "Helper TBonFtNoPr" to the class. However, this isn't quite right as it allows Djinni style and others that require Elemental Fist even with the talent, without having Elemental Fist. It's also not adding the text regarding racial traits.

You should not be using Helper.TBonFtNoPr as that says to ignore all feat Pre-Req which defeats the WHOLE reason to have your script running.

Originally Posted by Eilserves

There are some feat chains that aren't working yet, I presume because they don't have the fMoMSNext tags, but I can make copies of the feats and include that tag in the copies to fix that part.

Do not make copies of feats. That will never be allowed into the Pack.

Your making things sounds like the normal MoMS archetype is not working. Is that the case? Have you tested MoMS to see if it works or not? If the LW MoMS is working and your script is not then the issue is where you placed the tags and what Pick you are running on.

[Eilserves]

Originally Posted by ShadowChemosh

If you put this into a Class Ability it was the wrong location. I mentioned "Custom Ability" which is totally different than Class Ability. This script can not be placed on a class. Please move to a Custom Ability and then linkage[table] will work.

It is a Custom Ability, not a Class Ability. It's in the same list as Stunning Fist, Advice, Adaptive Style, etc.

That being said, however, I've copied the script back over to the ability and stripped it from the class. I think the previous issue was actually this bit of code:

      foreach pick in hero from BaseFeat where "fMoMSNext.?"
        perform eachpick.pulltags[fMoMSNext.?,fInclude]
        nexteach

      ~ Push the tags for the unlocked feats to the linked class
      perform linkage[varies].pushtags[fInclude.?]

Because these are using the Tertiary Bonus Feat section, fInclude and fExclude needed to be fIncTert and fExcTert, and I didn't figure that out until after I had put it on the class, then didn't make that connection once I had it working. With those two properly fixed in the "table" version, it is indeed working correctly. While revisiting it, I also got the racial feats bit working by changing

linkage[table].field[cBonFtTxt].text

to say cTBonFtTxt instead of just cBonFtTxt.

Originally Posted by ShadowChemosh

You should not be using Helper.TBonFtNoPr as that says to ignore all feat Pre-Req which defeats the WHOLE reason to have your script running.

The script only checks the later feats in the chain. The Ability itself adds a tag of fCatTert with a value of Style to make the first feats in the chain appear. This is to avoid conflict with your already coded Basics edge and Bonus Feat Talent. However, the Style Feats, even though they are in the Tertiary Bonus Feat category, do not ignore the BAB/Level Prereqs that this Talent emulates the MoMS ability to do without that tag. However, I found after a full game system reload that the ignoring of Elemental Fist is not occurring, and you cannot take, again using Djinnin Style, without first having Elemental Fist, so this is working as intended. If there's a better way I'm open to it, but the script doesn't make the first feat ignore pre-reqs. The Base Monk class has the ignore prereqs on "Bonus Feats", and the archetype replaces the standard bonus feats with the Style Feats, which are using the base class "ignore prereqs" feature to get the first feat in the style chain available. That tag of Helper.TBonFtNoPr replicates this behavior to the "Tertiary Bonus Feats" being used by this talent. After fixing the above script to properly work under the table, it is working just like the class/archetype combo.

Do not make copies of feats. That will never be allowed into the Pack.

Fair enough. See below.

Your making things sounds like the normal MoMS archetype is not working. Is that the case? Have you tested MoMS to see if it works or not? If the LW MoMS is working and your script is not then the issue is where you placed the tags and what Pick you are running on.

Having tested a MoMS character with a clean load without the community pack active, it suffers the same feat chain issues. Empty Quiver Style, for example, is selectable, but the rest of the chain does not show up in the Bonus Feats list on the character, so I'll leave it alone as it's working just like the core class/archetype combo.

Basically, after revisiting the code with linkage[table] and finding the issue I hadn't fixed in that version, this talent is actually now complete, and _not_ a script on the class. It does, however, require the Helper.TBonFtNoPr tag on the class to make the first feat in the style chains work.

[ShadowChemosh]

First I have to say it sounds like you made allot of progress actually which is awesome. Its hard for me to jump around between projects. So forgive me if my quick answers are not always helpful.

Originally Posted by Eilserves

Empty Quiver Style, for example, is selectable, but the rest of the chain does not show up in the Bonus Feats list on the character, so I'll leave it alone as it's working just like the core class/archetype combo.

Looks like you found a bug for Empty Quiver Style specifically. Try "Boar Style" and after adding it you can then take "Boar Ferocity".

My guess is that Empty Quiver child feats are missing this fMoMSNext.?. If this is true I can report this as a bug to LW to get fixed. Which in this case will fix the official issue and our issue.