Senior Member
Lone Wolf Staff
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,090
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For example, if the client tries to connect to the Realm Works server and gets a 404 error, that could be due to the Realm Works server having a bad configuration. Or it could be due to a proxy server between the client and server returning the error. Or it could be due to DNS pointing to the wrong server so even though the client thinks it is contacting the Realm Works server, it really is talking to some unknown other server. And if the Realm Works client tries talking to the server but gets back a response that it can't create the connection to the server: This can happen from a misconfiguration of the ISP that causes a routing loop. It could happen due to the Realm Works server being down at that moment. It could happen because of an Internet outage cutting the client off from the server in some hop. It could happen due to DNS spoofing giving the wrong IP address for the Realm Works server. This all seems simple in concept but becomes very messy and complicated in practice. And in the grand scheme of things, would you rather have extensive messaging giving nuances of all of the possible causes for errors and trouble-shooting wizards to guide how to resolve common errors or some feature such as content marketplace or calendars or journals? |
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#11 |
Senior Member
Lone Wolf Staff
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,090
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#12 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 707
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Quote:
Besides, we all know if the error coding were too forthright and simple guys like David would be outa work. :Snark: :wink: Its a fine balance not easily achived.. heck Microsoft has been mucking it up since the first edition of windows "Help" which is now in its artform stage! (really how many buttons must one click to determine its no help and then have the audacity to ask me if it was then helpful???) DLG D&D> Pre 1e White Box Edition, 1e, 2e, 3.5 Currently, Set in the World of Greyhawk (The first, longest running and Best Campaign Setting) Software>Extensive use of all forms of MS Products, Visual Studio 2012, DAZ 3d, AutoCAD, Adobe Products. Gaming Specific>Campaign Cartographer, D20 Pro Alpha & BattleGrounds Beta Tester, World Builder, Dungeon Crafter, LWD Hero Lab, Realm Works, Inkwell Ideas Citybuilder & Dungeon Builder, Auto-Realm, Dundjinni Contributing Writer for TSR, WOC, & Canonfire |
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#13 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,147
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For my part, as much as I'd like to see computerese disambiguated, please move my +1 for this request to after exporting (and printing, and calendaring, and revealgranularitying, and journaling, and marketplacing, and smartmapicondiversificationing, and and and...).
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#14 |
Senior Member
Volunteer Data File Contributor
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Chicago, IL (USA)
Posts: 10,729
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I think that is all that is being asked for to let the end user have at least a "basic" idea of the problem. Then they could check network connections, firewalls, antivirus software, and making sure they have the wifi turned on. Hero Lab Resources: Pathfinder - d20pfsrd and Pathfinder Pack Setup 3.5 D&D (d20) - Community Server Setup 5E D&D - Community Server Setup Hero Lab Help - Hero Lab FAQ, Editor Tutorials and Videos, Editor & Scripting Resources. Created by the community for the community - Realm Works kickstarter backer (Alpha Wolf) and Beta tester.- d20 HL package volunteer editor. |
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#15 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Twin Cities Area, MN, USA
Posts: 1,325
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Feel free to display all error messages in binary code that can't be copied if it means that you have more time to work on calendars.
Sorry, someone was bound to go there anyway. ;-) RW Project: Dungeons & Dragons 5th edition homebrew world Other Tools: CampaignCartographer, Cityographer, Dungeonographer, Evernote |
#16 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 411
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That is a completely false dichotomy that serves no purpose except to belittle a valid suggestion and a user. Last edited by MaxSupernova; October 6th, 2015 at 07:22 AM. |
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#17 |
Senior Member
Lone Wolf Staff
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,090
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Please don't blame Rob for my comments. They are all mine.
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#18 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 411
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#19 |
Senior Member
Lone Wolf Staff
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 8,232
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Since I've been (incorrectly) implicated here, I feel the need to chime in...
1. David has been under a LOT of pressure recently, and I'd already gotten on his case about the error messages shortly before this thread arose, so I can only assume that he was feeling a bit edgy about the subject. Given that, please cut him some slack on this one. His response could have been better worded, but I don't think it was as bad as it was characterized here. 2. The error messages are admittedly VERY poor in a variety of places. In places where I've spotted them in the past, I've flagged the issue and we've made improvements. Joe has done the same when he's caught issues. But Joe and I don't see all the various error messages and error handling behaviors, so there are a lot of places where we simply haven't caught the programmer-ese. 3. There is a separate task clearly outlined on our task list to go through and review all error messages and error handling behaviors so that we can address anything that is not going to be helpful to users. Sadly, that task has languished on the list for a long time because we've focused our efforts on other areas where we believe users will derive greater benefit. Given the clamor for everyone's favorite feature, plus the comments above regarding your relative priorities, that task will likely continue to languish for a fair bit longer. 4. Programmers write software. They do it well because their brains work a particular way - one that is very different from the norm. It is arguably quite rare for programmers to also be mindful of the typical user - one developer I know refers to such a combination as a "purple unicorn" (i.e. mythical). Consequently, many aspects of software products are frequently not well handled for the typical consumer. Witness 30 years of products from Microsoft as Exhibit A. So the claim that it takes ZERO extra time to write a clear error message is flawed. If the programmer writes the error messages, then you get a message that makes sense to the PROGRAMMER - which is exactly what we have here. Someone else has to come in and "police" everything to make sure it's all being done optimally for the average user. 5. Policing everything for the typical user takes a significant amount of time, and it's usually done by someone who's not a programmer (since the combination is rare). For a tiny team like we have for Realm Works, there isn't someone else, so the task falls to other members of the development team who are already working their tails off to add further capabilities to the product. They need to stop and review everything, but that doesn't always get done as thoroughly as it could, since a thorough job would further slow down our progress. Bottom line: We know error handling/reporting could and should be done better, and we've got tasks on our todo list to shore things up. But we're also mindful that most of our users would choose more features over improving the existing error handling/reporting. So it's a no-win situation for us, and we're doing a passable job IMHO, improving things incrementally over time. Is it ideal? Nope. But anything else would be doing a disservice to users, since they'd rather have new features as fast as possible. |
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