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Location: Chicago, IL (USA)
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Hero Lab Resources: Pathfinder - d20pfsrd and Pathfinder Pack Setup 3.5 D&D (d20) - Community Server Setup 5E D&D - Community Server Setup Hero Lab Help - Hero Lab FAQ, Editor Tutorials and Videos, Editor & Scripting Resources. Created by the community for the community - Realm Works kickstarter backer (Alpha Wolf) and Beta tester.- d20 HL package volunteer editor. |
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#51 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 412
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Honestly the only reason I don't use the pathfinder side of Herolab for this is by the fact Warmage isn't available to me. Lone Wolf doesn't do a very good job describing whats available to me when I purchase data packs, thus many purchases I have made already are rather useless to me. If I had better info back then surely I would have chosen better packages for my personal odd creations. Since I don't think the 3.5 books will ever be converted over due to copyrights and etc, etc. This area stands as my only option atm.
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#52 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,147
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#53 |
Senior Member
Volunteer Data File Contributor
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Nowhere, Virginia
Posts: 3,633
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LW also has too many releases from Catalyst Game Labs and Paizo to actually input data for as it is. That is why they rely on the community to deal with it. RavenX Pronouns: She/Her Please do not PM me to inquire about datafiles I coded "for personal use" such as Exalted, World of Darkness, AD&D, or Warhammer 40K Roleplaying. I appreciate your interest, but I do not own the Intellectual Property rights to these game systems. Nor do I have permission from any of the Publishers to distribute the data files. As such, I cannot distribute the work I have done with community on these files. They are "for personal use" only. Thank you. I am far too busy these days to answer emails. If you message me here there is no guarantee I will get back to you at all. |
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#54 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Vancouver, Canada.
Posts: 818
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With Gestalt, I've always used the sidebar for 'Fractional BAB' and 'Fractional Saves'.
That is the only way to really keep a Gestalt character in line with a normal character, in terms of their attacks and defenses. You can then bring in mostly the correct Encounter Level / Challenge Level creatures and have the game run fairly smoothly, with minimal modifications required on your part. If a monster relies heavily on 'save or nasty effect' abilities, each character is very likely to have all good defenses, meaning either bring in something two levels beyond what you normally would or reduce the CR/EL by two. In my games, I've found that bringing in +1 EL/CR for 'doesn't rely on attacking a specific save' or +2 EL/CR for 'relies on targeting a specific save', to be a happy fix. As in, my group is level 4 and I'd like a challenging encounter, that isn't likely to kill anyone if they play smart. Normally I'd throw an EL 6-8 (depending on their overall optimization level) encounter at them, but instead I throw 7-9 or 8-10 (again weighted by their level of optimization). One simple fix, and the system works for Gestalt characters. Sure you could go with additive saves, such as: LV 01 - Fighter 1 | Wizard 1 ........ +2 Fort LV 02 - Barbarian 1 | Wizard 2 ..... +2 Fort LV 03 - Cleric 1 | Wizard 3 ........... +2 Fort Then be a level 3 wizard, with +6 to Fortitude... If you choose to go with additive saves, rather than fractional saves, that breaks the game system. An even moderately optimized character is going to be almost immune to any game effect that allows a saving throw. If I were to let you have an NPC spell caster (for an encounter), who is restricted to spells that allow saving throws... the challenge rating system isn't going to work against 'additive saves' PCs, who will essentially be immune to your effects, especially if they have Rogue2 or Monk2 somewhere in their build for Evasion. Fractional BAB and Saves accomplishes this. Full BAB classes (those with +20 BAB at 20th level) gain +1.00 BAB per level. 3/4 BAB classes (those with +15 BAB at 20th level) gain +0.75 BAB per level. 1/2 BAB classes (those with +10 BAB at 20th level) gain +0.50 BAB per level. Until it's a whole number BAB rounds downwards. But you take the better value, from your combined two classes, for each level. So Wizard|Fighter and then Wizard|Barbarian, would take +1.00 (twice) as Fighter and Barbarian are both full BAB classes and therefore the better of the two values (Wizard being a 1/2 BAB class both times). The fractional saves is a little more complicated. If either of your (two classes) has a good save, that value begins at 2.00; if neither of your (two classes) has a good save, that value begins at 1/3 (or 0.33). The Fighter | Wizard would then have: Fort 2.00 Ref 0.33 Will 2.00 After the first level, you now only add the fractional value. Going Barbarian | Wizard, you add: Fort +0.50 Ref +0.33 Will +0.50 Giving you: Fort +2.50 (+2), Ref +0.66 (+0), Will +2.50 (+2). Which is in line for any single classed level 2 character who received good Fort/Will and poor Ref saves. You'd have to round 0.99 to 1, because we're actually adding 1/3 + 1/3 + 1/3, not 0.33 + 0.33 + 0.33. It's really up to you (or whoever is running the game), if you (they) want a working mathematical assumption on savings/attacks/ac or if you (they) want to either modify each encounter depending on the defense attacked/save required (sometimes for each PC in the group... if one has stacked FORT to +12 at 6th level, while the others are closer to a normal +1 to +4) or just accept that the values don't work and that your (their) level 12 monster should be worthless, or worth very little (in terms of experience) for a group that has +12 to a saving thrown, when the system anticipates +3 to +5 for the saving throw. |
#55 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Andover, Ma
Posts: 632
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I don't fractional in my games nor allow them because I don't feel confident in my mathematical ability. (And if I can't, I can't make sure its being added right especially when prestige classes or multi-classing comes into play later in the game.) However, with hero labs doing all the calculations it might be worth considering because it is more accurate.
But the real issue, the real hurdle with making Gestalt classes work in HL is not blending classes. But blending two caster classes. I don't know about fractional and CR/ECL. I've always gone by the rule of reduce the CR of monsters by 1/3rd in my head and that produces a fairly good match for most things. When it doesn't work, I tweak things while we are playing. But then, my play style is LESS hack and slash and more role-play. If combat is going poorly, and isn't balanced I'm just as likely to turn it into free-form rp combat as I am to pause the game and hit the books for added help. Some people may not like this, but those I play with don't seem to mind much. |
#56 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4
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I'm getting the following error when trying to load after importing the gestalt files:
Syntax error in 'eval' script for Thing 'cPUDevaTou" (Eval Script '#1") on line 9 -> Error in right-side expression of assignment Anyone know what's going on? |
#57 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,147
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Quote:
Also, what gestalt files did you import? Are you sure they aren't for Pathfinder? That thing (cPUDevaTou) doesn't exist in the d20 community set. |
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#58 |
Senior Member
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Chicago, IL (USA)
Posts: 10,729
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That is from Ultimate Psionics from the Pathfinder Community Pack. So either a) wrong forum or b) he tried to load Pathfinder stuff into d20....
Hero Lab Resources: Pathfinder - d20pfsrd and Pathfinder Pack Setup 3.5 D&D (d20) - Community Server Setup 5E D&D - Community Server Setup Hero Lab Help - Hero Lab FAQ, Editor Tutorials and Videos, Editor & Scripting Resources. Created by the community for the community - Realm Works kickstarter backer (Alpha Wolf) and Beta tester.- d20 HL package volunteer editor. |
#59 |
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