Wild Shape Forms

[risner]

I've been trying for a while to get a wild shape form feature that can select from available templates or specials that are each individual form. Then when the form is selected, it applies the proper changes to your character (removing Claws from base race, adding bite from new form. adding speeds, adding Ex abilities, etc.

I've been unable to get this done the way I like it.

I'd like something to add to the inplay tab (called "Wild Shape Forms"). Once added, it presents a list of available forms. Once a form is selected, it applies all the features.

The forms will be either templates or specials (depending on what is needed to apply all the features.)

I can't get past the initial step. I can't create an anything that can show up on the InPlay or Adjustment tab that searches available templates or specials. I don't even know where to start, since I can't think of a similar way.

The closest is the Age Categories of the Dragons made by LG, but they only take a number on the adjustment page. I want something that depends on other items (templates or specials) to be created and if only one is created it only displays one form.

 

[Mathias]

I'm afraid if this were achievable as easily as you're hoping, I'd already have added it. Individual adjustments or templates for every possible form is the only current way to achieve the various shapechaning abilities.

 

[risner]

I'm afraid if this were achievable as easily as you're hoping, I'd already have added it. Individual adjustments or templates for every possible form is the only current way to achieve the various shapechaning abilities.

I'm planning on doing individual adjustments/templates for every possible form.

I just don't know how to do that.

Meaning, I know how to make a template and assign it. I just don't want to do it that "ugly". I want to make an In-Play (or adjustment if I have to) that can be used to select from the individual templates I created.

 

[risner]

To be clear:
Say I created this object:

In-Play selector widget (adds a line in In-Play tab that initially is set to "None")
When set to None, doesn't do anything. If None needs to be a template called "None" that is ok too.

Add two templates:
Wild Shape Polar Bear
Wild Shape Treant

These templates have tags "WildShapeForm" that the widget uses to know which Templates are allowed (so it doesn't show all templates.)

When you go back to In-Play and click the selector on the widget, it now says:
None
Polar Beat
Treant

If you remove the Treant template, it is removed from the Widget's list.
If you add Wild Shape Monkey, it is added to the options in the Widget's list.

 

[risner]

One of the paths I tried was making an Adjustment, made a new "Show Menu" tag of WildShForm. But I don't know how to tag things that it will detect. It just says "Nothing to Select"

 

[Mathias]

I'm planning on doing individual adjustments/templates for every possible form.

I just don't know how to do that.

Meaning, I know how to make a template and assign it. I just don't want to do it that "ugly". I want to make an In-Play (or adjustment if I have to) that can be used to select from the individual templates I created.

I don't know how to do that, either. Like I said, if it were that easy to do this in HL, I'd already have added this capability.

 

[risner]

I don't know how to do that, either. Like I said, if it were that easy to do this in HL, I'd already have added this capability.

Ok, I see. Hmm. Thanks for responding.

I wonder if this is a question for Rob/Colen? Along the lines of what does "Show Menu" and making a new tag in it do?

I've got templates created, and I can add them manually. I just would like a more elegant thing.

 

[Mathias]

This is something I've discussed with Rob and Colen, and we've outlined how it can be done.

The goal is that the adjustments will select the original races, not even having to worry about an intermediate helper template, and figure out from there what needs to be changed.

 

[risner]

The goal is that the adjustments will select the original races, not even having to worry about an intermediate helper template, and figure out from there what needs to be changed.

1) To get to this step is a .exe change (in the program) I assume? Is this a large change?

2) Is there any docs for how to use the "Show Menu" feature "New Tag" and what it does? I assume this couldn't be used?

3) Do you do bounties on new features? In other words, I'd pay for the programming work required ;-)

---

Sadly for me, this is the primary reason I need D20 data sets. I have exactly one character on D20 now, and it happens to be a MoMF Druid with a ton of forms. So the work to calculate the differences in each form is so complex it almost makes having HL not an advantage. So it is this one thing that has nagged me from the first day I built this character. Getting HL to make this easier for me.

 

[Mathias]

Remember that Wild Shape forms can currently be implemented with Templates or Adjustments. What's missing is for the Wild Shape ability on the class to have a menu to select the current form you're in. I'm afraid the fact that an okay solution to the problem is do-able pushes the ideal solution down further on the to-do list. The currently available option is only less than ideal because it clutters up the adjustments or templates lists.

 

[risner]

because it clutters up the adjustments or templates lists.

And is cumbersome to change ;-( Which is why I've continued to tinker with some way to do this.

I've made progress, but I think I'm still unable to do this.

I've made a feat that can choose between available templates with a User.WSF? tag.

This works well.

But I've tried to bootstrap the template based on which fChosen is selected. But there is no numerical value for the chosen evidently on the feat. So all I have is a text string "xName" as "Wild Shape Form - No Current Form"

So I have questions:

1) Is there a way in a condition of a bootstrap to check a string?
fieldval:xName = "Wild Shape Form - No Current Form" doesn't appear to work.

2) Is there any way to run a script before a bootstrap so I can turn that string into something the bootstrap can algebraically load/notload?

3) There is no way to bootstrap in a script? Is there a way to bootstrap alll templates and deactivate them in a script? Like "FtHide" for feat?

4) Is there a way to make a new gizmo class (only ones currently are weapons/armor/spells now) and have it bootstrap the template onto the hero based on it's settings?

5) Is there a way to script all the changes a template makes without the need for a template? So I could have the one feat perform all the work of the templates in that one gigantic scripted feat?

6) I tried to use hTotal on the feat, and I can script changes to it. But the bootstrap condition "fieldval:hTotal = 2" doesn't cause the bootstrap to load when the value is set to 2 via a script.

Any answers to these approaches? Whether they will ever work or not? I feel like I'm so close.

 

[risner]

Progress.

I have a working template structure that loads a helper Special (hidden) that processes most of the boring work (removing things the new form doesn't get, etc)

Remaining items to code:
Deal with Wilding Clasp (currently not assigned to an object) to avoid disabling items with Clasps
Deal with stat boosting Wilding Clasp items.
Deal with Condition: Spell Enhanced Wild Shape instead of just MMoF 7th level
Deal with removing a land speed if the new form can only fly, etc.
Deal with actually removing old natural weapons (apparently D20 doesn't support Pathfinder's Hide.Weapon feature.)

Everything else pretty much works.

Where it breaks is usually the fault of other code (like Ex Sa abilities like Swallow Whole not being listed as an Attack so it can't be deactivated if on the base race.)

I'll try to get this code integrated into the code base for 1.3 release, but I have a lot more to do:
1) Need to merge my MoMF with community 1.2 version
2) Need to correct various Wild Shape things in community code to work (Extra Wild Shape feat, Armour of the Beast) with new code (mostly timing issues)

Not yet figured out:
How to bootstrap the template based on a set tag on the hero, but LawfulG is sending me some code to do so. If it works, I'll also put in the wild shape feat that allows selecting forms in a menu instead of adding/removing via templates.

Once this is released, it will be easy for others to create new templates for new forms. I'll try to hammer out how to do that in the form of docs in the ones I release, so it is as easy as copy similar creature and change text.

 

[risner]

LawfulG, here is what I'm trying to do as requested:

I have a template I need to bootstrap only depending on a choice made via a feat:

Here is the feat:

  <thing id="fWildShape" name="Wild Shape Form" compset="Feat">
    <comment>junk
but useful to see how to select templates from a User.WSF?</comment>
    <fieldval field="ftCandExpr" value="User.WSF?"/>
    <tag group="fCategory" tag="General" name="General" abbrev="General"/>
    <bootstrap thing="tmOctTree">
      <containerreq phase="First" priority="100">fieldval:hTotal = 2</containerreq>
      </bootstrap>
    <eval phase="First"><![CDATA[
     ~ If we're disabled, do nothing
     if (tagis[Helper.FtDisable] <> 0) then
          done
     endif

     ~ If we haven't chosen anything, get out now
     if (field[fChosen].ischosen = 0) then
          done
     endif

     ~ Forward the Template tags from that thing to the hero
     var result as number
     result = field[fChosen].chosen.forward[User.WSF?]

     if (hero.tagis[User.WSFOctTree] <> 0) then
          debug "User.WSFOctTree on Hero"
          field[hTotal].value = 2
     else
          debug "no User.WSFOctTree on Hero"
          field[hTotal].value = 1
     endif

     debug field[hTotal].value]]></eval>
    </thing>

The feat has a choice made from templates with User.WSF? format tags.
The choice is then forwarded to the hero.
But I can't get any bootstrap in the feat to pay attention either the tag on the Feat, on the Hero, or hTotal set.

 

[Lawful_g]

Can you send me the relevant prestige class, feat, and templates so I can see and fiddle with the whole thing's interaction?

 

[risner]

Can you send me the relevant prestige class, feat, and templates so I can see and fiddle with the whole thing's interaction?

ok

http://h.stdio.com/~risner/LG.zip

Notes: this works with Community 1.2 files, but you need to use the CAdv - Master of Many Forms I include (which is hacked to a different name.)
I need to merge your MoMF PrC with my MoMF PrC (in the @Upload.user file) and put them in 1.3

This PC has a lot of Wild Shape related features including a number of features not in the community 1.2 dataset. I'm going to (time permitting) integrate this all and fix up the broken (with this stuff) Wild Shape things in the community 1.2 set (like Extra Wild Shape feat, etc.)

@Errata is where I'm putting things (newish file) to integrate by changing stuff in the community files.

@NewUpload.user is more stuff for a second character I was building.

@D20 Additional has a lot of junk and the current attempt at wild shaping templates (only DragonHawk and Zern are in there now. Octopus Tree is old and not the newest template. Things labeled as junk are not currently used.)

This preceding message is my brain dump on this batch of files so I can answer any questions you might have to begin looking.

How to use:

New game system
Community 1.2 data set
overwrite CAdv-MasterManyForms.user
Add these files to the directory.
Load Fester .por
Add feat Wild Shape Form and select Dragonhawk

To get it working, the feat needs to bootstrap ONLY the Dragonhawk template when Dragonhawk is selected and no longer bootstrap the other templates.

 

[Lawful_g]

k. Got it. Give me a bit to look over things. On my way to work now so may be a while.

 

[risner]

k. Got it. Give me a bit to look over things. On my way to work now so may be a while.

Been working on it since.
I think I have it working, but only in a class special (instead of feat)

But all the code is wrong now (tagging the wrong specials as hidden, etc.)

Using Phase Testing Global Variables properly bootstraps the template.

 

[risner]

Yep working fine (the selecting and the bootstrapping) but the code now isn't working.

Code that compared each.field[xName].text now shows those fields "" (blank) instead of text. So the code to search for Breath Weapon and Gaze Attack is flagging all specials. Yay me. Trying to figure out why this is happening now.

I updated the LG.zip file to this code.
You select the form from inside the Druid class from a toggle out of the Wild Shape class feature.

 

[risner]

Working fine now.

I only have 2 forms:
Zern (MM IV)
Dragonhawk (Five Nations)

I also have the "Natural Form" which can clean up some things to set you back to defaults.

I'm fairly sure everything is working. If anyone is curious the file above (LG.zip) is updated.

I'm not going to have time to work on this again until Friday or so, but during the weekend I'm going to try to build a form for everything that a MoMF can be. This should allow people to duplicate a similar creature and have most of the pre-req checks done automatically for you.

 

[Lawful_g]

Oh good. Sorry I couldn't be more help before you solved it on your own.