White Wolf games question

[Zennister]

Does this agreement extend to the old WoD games? I think the new material is terrible and still use the old games instead. I was really hoping that it would be possible to do both systems.

 

[SWChance]

Not to knock your question but I have to say I doubt it will happen. It probably depends on the license given by White Wolf. Its like asking if we can get the srd in 3.0 format or Star Wars in the old WEG d6 system. Older systems are great but not supported by the companies anymore.

 

[rob]

Unfortunately, the license is for the latest incarnations of the games. If the previous edition is similar to the latest edition (I have no idea, personally), then it might be possible to adapt the data files to the old edition. However, given your comments, I have to assume that there were substantive changes made that would make adaptation non-viable.

-Rob

At 03:14 PM 1/11/2007, you wrote:

Does this agreement extend to the old WoD games? I think the new material is terrible and still use the old games instead. I was really hoping that it would be possible to do both systems.

 

[Zennister]

There were some pretty large changes and I doubt you could do the old system without a completely new set of files. I won't get into a rant as I tend to do when talking about the old system compared to the new, but the new games aren't worth the paper they're printed on.

Thanks for the info, Rob.

 

[Tashtego]

I think the new games are much better than the old ones - the system is streamlined, I can run crossovers like a charm, combat is fast and dangerous, and there's no stupid metaplot cramping my ideaspace and getting in the way of me doing what I like with my games. All in all, the new World of Darkness is a much better GMing experience for me than the old system ever was.

YMMV.

Regards,
Belinda

 

[Zennister]

I would agree whole heartedly that the new system is more streamlined and I do enjoy the mechanics, but the fluff behind my favorite system (Werewolf) is horrible in my humble opinion. The game was good before the company got a little money hungry and started publishing everything that they could come up with to provide more books for people to buy. I personally never found myself hindered or restricted in any way shape or form except by what I could come up with. I have no problem with the new Vampire since it didn't change a whole heck of a lot, but Werewolf got a big screw-job and that's really the only system that I have any interest in actually playing. I'm more concerned about the fluff than the mechanics.

But then again, everyone enjoys different aspects about games and what I despise, others may love. That's the way of the world.

 

[rob]

Pardon the possible ignorance here, but I'm not a Werewolf player....

If you like the new mechanics and dislike the changes to the fluff, couldn't you just use the old fluff with the new mechanics? Groups I've gamed with over the years have done that more often than not, using game mechanics we like from one system with completely different settings or fluff material from another system (or our own concept entirely). In fact, the primary campaign we play in these days is structured that way.

It might be the best of both worlds AND allow you to use Hero Lab to streamline things ever further. Then again, it's also possible my ignorance has me blind to something fundamental that precludes this from working. But it's potentially worth considering....

-Rob


At 02:03 PM 1/13/2007, you wrote:

I would agree whole heartedly that the new system is more streamlined and I do enjoy the mechanics, but the fluff behind my favorite system (Werewolf) is horrible in my humble opinion. The game was good before the company got a little money hungry and started publishing everything that they could come up with to provide more books for people to buy. I personally never found myself hindered or restricted in any way shape or form except by what I could come up with. I have no problem with the new Vampire since it didn't change a whole heck of a lot, but Werewolf got a big screw-job and that's really the only system that I have any interest in actually playing. I'm more concerned about the fluff than the mechanics.

But then again, everyone enjoys different aspects about games and what I despise, others may love. That's the way of the world.

 

[Zennister]

Well, at first my girlfriend and I had considered it since she wanted to run a game, but the system is so radically different that it would be extremely difficult. It really is a little more than just the fluff in Werewolf. I find the gifts to be lacking in many cases and there are other aspects that just aren't kosher with us as far as the system for werewolf. Where as Mage and Vampire are really quite similar to their original systems in the manner in which they work, they altered Werewolf so much just to get it to fit into their new format that it just wouldn't be worth the trouble.

We still have all the old books. She's starting her Dark Ages WW game in a week or three and I started a modern one last week. To be honest, there's no reason to transfer the system since the original isn't horribly broken, just not as streamlined as the new one.

 

[kingpaul]

Its like asking if we can get the srd in 3.0 format

WotC may not have that up online any more, but it is still around. Since its OGC, you can still use it under the OGL.

 

[MPHopcroft]

Its like asking if we can get the srd in 3.0 format

WotC may not have that up online any more, but it is still around. Since its OGC, you can still use it under the OGL.

The desirability, of course, is an issue best left to another discussion.

This is going to be an even sticker issue when the RuneQuest files come out, because of the changes between Mongoose's edition (which is licensed) and the previous Chaosium/Avalon Hill editions (which are not).

 

[rob]

At 06:07 PM 3/17/2007, you wrote:

This is going to be an even sticker issue when the RuneQuest files come out, because of the changes between Mongoose's edition (which is licensed) and the previous Chaosium/Avalon Hill editions (which are not).

I've still got my original 1st Edition copy of Runequest on the shelf. It's battered from use and needs help holding itself together. I also have my old 1st Edition copy of Vampire. So I have a very soft spot for these "old" games. If there is a reasonable way in which we can support the older versions in addition to the newer ones, we'll do so. However, there are practical limits to what can/can't be reasonably accomplished. For example, trying to support D&D 2nd Edition and 3rd Edition in the same set of data files would be ridiculous to try.

We have not yet looked closely at the technical and time implications of supporting both old and new editions of either the WoD or Runequest systems. Once we do, we'll make an assessment. If the extra work is not significant, we'll strive to provide compatability with older editions, but our first priority will always be the current edition.

-Rob

 

[MPHopcroft]

Since you have those earlier editions, I'm sure you've noticed some of the technical issues (2nd and 3rd edition have one more characteristic than the Mongoose edition, for example).

The other thing about MRQ that may pose a problem for a chargen program is that it's one of the last "Play what you rolled" RPGs. Building a PC from concept isn't as easy when the characteristic you need most might be the one on which you got the lowest score. ("I'm Hamrock the short, weak, sickly Barbarian Uberwarrior! F- <koff, koff> fear me!")

 

[rob]

At 10:51 AM 3/20/2007, you wrote:

Since you have those earlier editions, I'm sure you've noticed some of the technical issues (2nd and 3rd edition have one more characteristic than the Mongoose edition, for example).

Fortunately, this particular item is easily accommodated with about 5-10 minutes of work. However, I'm sure there will be something else that ends up causing no end of pain and suffering....

The other thing about MRQ that may pose a problem for a chargen program is that it's one of the last "Play what you rolled" RPGs. Building a PC from concept isn't as easy when the characteristic you need most might be the one on which you got the lowest score. ("I'm Hamrock the short, weak, sickly Barbarian Uberwarrior! F- <koff, koff> fear me!"

Hero Lab basically side steps this issue at the moment. We currently leave it to the player to assign the stats. If we integrate the dice roller more tightly into the game systems other than d20 (which is the plan), we'll still provide users with the flexibility to override information. This is required because users will often roll their stats at the table with the rest of the group and then want to punch those numbers into Hero Lab. As long as we provide this capability, we should be able to avoid any problems from this facet of MRQ.