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- The Lone Wolf Development Team
Where is DMG MM & PHB in RealmWorks
- Thread starter bishop618
- Start date
Viking2054
Well-known member
Once the content market is fully realized, some of those concerns might be alleviated. However, that means buying content or maybe hoping for cheap content provided by other players (if that is going to be allowed).
Of course some content will probably require a license from the IP holder, if that can be obtained.
Of course some content will probably require a license from the IP holder, if that can be obtained.
The PFRD is run by Paizo so it doesn't run into any IP issues.
The third party one, D20PFSRD, does run into IP issues. It routinely renames things for instance.
WotC has a definite interest in controlling the production and distribution of their IP and may take a very dim view of anyone doing so without a license.
The third party one, D20PFSRD, does run into IP issues. It routinely renames things for instance.
WotC has a definite interest in controlling the production and distribution of their IP and may take a very dim view of anyone doing so without a license.
ShadowChemosh
Well-known member
This only happens because d20Pfsrd is now a 3PP publisher and is selling off the website. This means they have to follow the OGL not the Paizo CUP. If you look at something like Archives of Nethys you see it has everything and can even use IP names like Hellknight or names of gods.
If you are 100% free than you can follow Pathfinder CUP instead of OGL giving you allot more leeway in sharing there content. Heck check out the Pathfinderwiki site for all the world information for Golarion.
Meaning pretty much everything from Paizo except Modules/Adventures could go into RW and be shared for free.
Are you sure about the sharing bit still conforming to the CUP?
I don't know if sharing something with RW counts as publishing.
I strongly doubt this. If you use trademarked IP even if you give it away you are in a very bad legal situation. Until/unless a judge determines that RW is not publishing or distributing in the legal senses, which seems extremely unlikely to me, trademark holders, to conform to the letter of the law, must pursue anyone who uses their trademarked IP without license or risk losing the right to control said IP.
ShadowChemosh
Well-known member
You guys keeping thinking in terms of OGL not Paizo CUP (Community Use Policy). My HL community stuff already runs under CUP allowing me to use IP names of NPCs or Gods or Classes. Long before LW did the adventure paths my community stuff was already providing all the Monsters and NPCs including IP names of said Monster/NPCs. I have been giving this stuff away for years already and Paizo knows it. The only thing I can't share under CUP is the art work which is why I am very careful to remove all images from the .por files.
Again I point to the existing and legal sites already running under CUP (Archives of Nethys, Pathfinderwiki) already giving away 99% of all Paizo material. The medium that is being used is not important to Paizo. Giving the info in RW or a Website is just as fine as downloadable word documents.
Publishing to Paizo means to sell the material which is not allowed under CUP. I must give away the material for 100% free. In addition I must give the CUP legal information which is easy to do on the home page of a realm.
Now just because this "can" be done does not mean it will get done. The last part is that Modules/Adventures are more useful than information I can pull in from the Pathfinderwiki. And adventures/modules are where Paizo makes money and those can not be put into RW and shared under CUP. That I guarantee you will bring down Paizo's lawyers very quickly. This is where the fact that LW has a license with Paizo will allow them to sell Adventure Paths and Modules and maybe even PFS Scenarios. All things many want but can't be shared under CUP.
In the end Paizo is not WotC and has a very different business model. They have learned that giving away the rules and world information does not lose them money. In fact it makes them money.
Again I point to the existing and legal sites already running under CUP (Archives of Nethys, Pathfinderwiki) already giving away 99% of all Paizo material. The medium that is being used is not important to Paizo. Giving the info in RW or a Website is just as fine as downloadable word documents.
Publishing to Paizo means to sell the material which is not allowed under CUP. I must give away the material for 100% free. In addition I must give the CUP legal information which is easy to do on the home page of a realm.
Now just because this "can" be done does not mean it will get done. The last part is that Modules/Adventures are more useful than information I can pull in from the Pathfinderwiki. And adventures/modules are where Paizo makes money and those can not be put into RW and shared under CUP. That I guarantee you will bring down Paizo's lawyers very quickly. This is where the fact that LW has a license with Paizo will allow them to sell Adventure Paths and Modules and maybe even PFS Scenarios. All things many want but can't be shared under CUP.
In the end Paizo is not WotC and has a very different business model. They have learned that giving away the rules and world information does not lose them money. In fact it makes them money.
I'm not thinking in terms of OGL or CUP. I'm thinking in terms of IP law. Paizo has a trademark on Golarion and certain other IP. They have to defend their trademarks against infringement or they can lose the rights to those trademarks. Allowing wide distribution of their IP without license even if free might be seen by a judge as sufficient to mean they have failed to protect their trademark.
RW is a new medium, as I have often stated. It may well be considered a new publishing format, and I don't think anyone wants to volunteer to be the test case to find that out.
ShadowChemosh may be over-stating the breadth, but the Community Use Policy (CUP) is pretty generous.
WotC and Paizo have different business models.
The D&D business model is to sell the core rulebooks ... they left the 3.x era adventures to third parties because their analysis said it would not be profitable for them to do the adventures (except for a minimal number). Everything they did publish was to drive sales of the PHB in the end. The more restrictive licenses on 4E and 5E are intended to prevent people from re-publishing enough of the rules that would discourage the sales of the core books.
In contrast, Paizo's staple product is the Adventure Paths. The rules are there to provide the framework for running the adventures. Paizo sells the rulebooks and expands the game, but that is primarily to support ongoing sales and the APs. They are more open with the availability of the rules because they feel that increases the sames of their adventures.
The OGL, as a specific license, grants certain usage according to its wording. Being more specific, it supersedes general IP law in some areas, but relies on that law framework for the points not addressed in the OGL itself. Content not declared as "Open" in the OGL falls under the broader IP laws.
Paizo's CUP is also a more specific license. It allows the use of certain things that the OGL would not (by itself) under limited circumstances. It pre-dates RW, and may be subject to revision to address the circumstances of RW, so it may be dangerous to rely on it for RW.
The CUP and OGL *are* licenses to re-distribute content under certain conditions. The OGL requires that the license text be included with the re-distributed content, for example.
As I mentioned in my previous post, RW may cause Paizo to revise the CUP because of its potential as a publishing medium; at the same time, though, the PathfinderWiki is also a publishing medium, and they seem perfectly fine with it.
Certainly, the elements of the Adventure Paths and modules are far more sensitive for Paizo than the rules are. Plots, characters, names. artwork, and such are the core of their products and are more necessary for them to protect.
We're actually going to be launching some FREE content for everyone before the store itself comes online. You can read about that in this newspost.
We also plan on hosting select free community content, in addition to content for purchase in the future.
In the case of 4e, highly unlikely. The rather permissive OGL was gutted for the 4e GSL, which is little more than a list of terms you are allowed to mention without making Wizards cross. There is virtually nothing in official 4e that we'd be permitted to transcribe into RW :\
I would think the answer to hosting free content will depend on what cloud storage option you are paying for. This may also be an opportunity for someone to start a site to host (and even sell) RW content.
I have a feeling LWD doesn't want to host EVERYTHING because they are probably liable should they host something that infringes. Vetting and ensuring IP compliance would be a lot of work.
I have a feeling LWD doesn't want to host EVERYTHING because they are probably liable should they host something that infringes. Vetting and ensuring IP compliance would be a lot of work.