Tweaks, fixed cost for zrng items

[ace at madbomber.net]

OK--I've got a teak (ammunition). That tweak is selectable multiple times
via "zrng:0-999". HOWEVER, according to the inquisitor rulebook, the cost
is the same regardless of whether you take 1 of the items or 50 of them.

For example: special bolt ammunition, special ammunition, shotgun
ammunition, grenade types, and toxins are all set up with "zrng:0-999". For
each of these, however, the item only costs the following:

bolt ammunition: 9 points regardless of # of rounds selected
special ammunition: 5 points regardless of # of rounds selected
shotgun ammunition: 5 points regardless of # of rounds selected
grenades: 3, 5, 9, or 15 points regardless of # of grenades selected,
depending on type (common, rare, exotic, legendary)
toxins: 4 points regardless of # of toxin applications selected

The problem is that I can't figure out how to do this. If I give the tweak
a cost (i.e. 5), every time I increment it (from 1-2, 2-3, etc), it adds the
cost.

How do I get it to add the cost 1 time and then stop, regardless of how many
further times I select that item using zrng:?

 

[demandred at skrill.org]

One fine day in the middle of the night, Michael Earley
<ace@madbomber.net> got up to write:

>OK--I've got a teak (ammunition). That tweak is selectable multiple times
>via "zrng:0-999". HOWEVER, according to the inquisitor rulebook, the cost
>is the same regardless of whether you take 1 of the items or 50 of them.

'zcst:single' should work, I think.

--
'Not Colin' McAlister | License to Skrill
Email: demandred@skrill.org | Visit http://www.skrill.org/ today!
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[ace at madbomber.net]

sadly, zcst:single references the ITEM'S count, not the tweak's count. Or
at least that's what it says. And when I tried it, it didn't work...


> One fine day in the middle of the night, Michael Earley
> <ace@madbomber.net> got up to write:
>
> >OK--I've got a teak (ammunition). That tweak is selectable
> multiple times
> >via "zrng:0-999". HOWEVER, according to the inquisitor
> rulebook, the cost
> >is the same regardless of whether you take 1 of the items or
> 50 of them.
>
> 'zcst:single' should work, I think.
>
>

 

[rob]

Try the following. Assign a cost of "0" to the tweak. Then use "zmor" to
chain to a separate hidden tweak that has the proper cost associated with
it. IIRC, the chained tweak will only be processed if the count for the
primary tweak is non-zero. This way, you can have let the user select the
tweak as many times as he wants, but the cost of the tweak will only be
applied once, and only if the user selects the tweak at least once.

Let me know if this works....

Thanks, Rob


At 04:04 PM 9/10/2001 -0400, you wrote:
>sadly, zcst:single references the ITEM'S count, not the tweak's count. Or
>at least that's what it says. And when I tried it, it didn't work...


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Lone Wolf Development www.wolflair.com


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[ace at madbomber.net]

OK--how does zmor work? I'm having trouble getting it to work.
Specifically:

I've got Tweak A, with "zrng:0-999" specified, for Item 1. The cost of
Tweak A is 0. On Item 1, Tweak A is specified as "Cost".

I create Tweak B, with a cost of 5 (how much ALL selections, regardless of
count, the Tweak A costs).

Do i put the zmor attribute on Tweak A, or Tweak B?

What do I specify as the relationship on zmor? "Auto", since I want it to
automatically be selected when Tweak A goes above 0 (in a zrng:0-999)?

Do I have to put Tweak B on the "Tweak" list for Item 1? If so, as what
type? Cost? Auto?

I was trying zmor, and couldn't seem to get it to work...Thanks in
advance...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rob Bowes [mailto:rob@wolflair.com]
> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 11:02 PM
> To: armybuilder@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [AB] Tweaks, fixed cost for zrng items
>
>
> Try the following. Assign a cost of "0" to the tweak. Then
> use "zmor" to
> chain to a separate hidden tweak that has the proper cost
> associated with
> it. IIRC, the chained tweak will only be processed if the
> count for the
> primary tweak is non-zero. This way, you can have let the
> user select the
> tweak as many times as he wants, but the cost of the tweak
> will only be
> applied once, and only if the user selects the tweak at least once.
>
> Let me know if this works....
>
> Thanks, Rob
>
>
> At 04:04 PM 9/10/2001 -0400, you wrote:
> >sadly, zcst:single references the ITEM'S count, not the
> tweak's count. Or
> >at least that's what it says. And when I tried it, it didn't work...
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------
> Rob Bowes (rob@wolflair.com)
> (650) 726-9689
> Lone Wolf Development
> www.wolflair.com
>
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[rob]

"zmor" works virtually the same as "more" does for options. The only real
difference is that it works on tweaks. So the logic pertaining to "zmor" is
the same as "more". Here is how both attributes work on a generic level....

The purpose of "more" is to have one option equate to multiple options. For
example, let's assume that a user can select OptionA for UnitA. However,
for UnitB, selecting OptionB also implies that OptionA is automatically
taken. You can do this by assigning a "more" attriubte to OptionB that
chains to OptionA. Whenever OptionB is selected, OptionA is also selected
for the unit via this chaining mechanism.

The link nature specified for the "more" attribute is whatever link nature
you would normally use when attaching the chained option to the unit
directly. If you want the chained option to appear as a selection choice
for the user, then use "cost". If the chained option is always selected,
use either "incl" or "auto". The only caveat to this is that chained
options follow the cost/free rules of the option that chains to them. So in
the example up above of OptionA and OptionB, if OptionB is attached to the
unit with the "incl" nature, then all options chained from OptionB are
FREE. Once one option in the chain is free, all FURTHER options in the
chain are also free.

Getting back to your specific example now...

You would attach "TweakA" to the item with a link nature of "auto". Assign
the attribute "zmor:TweakB=auto" to TweakA so that it automatically chains
to TweakB and the cost is calculated. You do NOT attach TweakB directly to
the item - it is chained to via TweakA.

Hope this helps,
Rob


At 09:58 AM 9/11/2001 -0400, you wrote:
>OK--how does zmor work? I'm having trouble getting it to work.
>Specifically:
>
>I've got Tweak A, with "zrng:0-999" specified, for Item 1. The cost of
>Tweak A is 0. On Item 1, Tweak A is specified as "Cost".
>
>I create Tweak B, with a cost of 5 (how much ALL selections, regardless of
>count, the Tweak A costs).
>
>Do i put the zmor attribute on Tweak A, or Tweak B?
>
>What do I specify as the relationship on zmor? "Auto", since I want it to
>automatically be selected when Tweak A goes above 0 (in a zrng:0-999)?
>
>Do I have to put Tweak B on the "Tweak" list for Item 1? If so, as what
>type? Cost? Auto?
>
>I was trying zmor, and couldn't seem to get it to work...Thanks in
>advance...


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[ace at madbomber.net]

> You would attach "TweakA" to the item with a link nature of
> "auto". Assign
> the attribute "zmor:TweakB=auto" to TweakA so that it
> automatically chains
> to TweakB and the cost is calculated. You do NOT attach
> TweakB directly to
> the item - it is chained to via TweakA.
>
> Hope this helps,
> Rob
>
One last question--can I assign TweakA to the item with a link nature of
"cost" instead of "Auto"? What I want to avoid is the 5 points being added
to the item unless the sbsr selects 1 or more of the tweak (ammunition).

 

[rob]

Absolutely. The cost/free nature is inherited downward. But you are free to
use either "cost" or "auto" for cost-based links and either "free" or
"incl" for free links.

Thanks, Rob


At 03:35 PM 9/11/2001 -0400, you wrote:
>One last question--can I assign TweakA to the item with a link nature of
>"cost" instead of "Auto"? What I want to avoid is the 5 points being added
>to the item unless the sbsr selects 1 or more of the tweak (ammunition).


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Lone Wolf Development www.wolflair.com


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[ace at madbomber.net]

> You would attach "TweakA" to the item with a link nature of
> "auto". Assign
> the attribute "zmor:TweakB=auto" to TweakA so that it
> automatically chains
> to TweakB and the cost is calculated. You do NOT attach
> TweakB directly to
> the item - it is chained to via TweakA.
>
> Hope this helps,
> Rob
>
OK--I've played around with this. Here's what DIDN'T work:

1) Tweak A has "zmor:TweakB=auto" as an attribute. Tweak B has a cost of 5.
Tweak A is listed as an applicable tweak for "ItemB", which is a "generic"
item. Item A, the "main" item in question, has an attribute of
"zcln:ItemB". Item A has no applicable tweaks of its own--only the tweaks
it clones from the "zcln:ItemB" attribute.

This did not work, I suspect b/c of the "zcln" nature.

2) Tweak A has "zmor:TweakB=auto" as an attribute. Tweak B has a cost of 5.
Tweak A is listed as an applicable tweak, with a relationship of "cost" for
"ItemA", which is the main item. Tweak A has "zrng:0-999" attribute
associated with it.

This did not work. Incrementing the count of "tweak A" only exposed the
TweakB in the list of options, but did not auto-select it.

3) Tweak A has "zmor:TweakB=auto" as an attribute. Tweak B has a cost of 5.
Tweak A is listed as an applicable tweak, with a relationship of "auto" for
"ItemA", which is the main item. Tweak A has "zrng:0-999" attribute
associated with it.

This did not work. Incrementing the count of "tweak A" only exposed the
TweakB in the list of options, but did not auto-select it.

4) Tweak A has "zmor:TweakB=auto" as an attribute. Tweak B has a cost of 5.
Tweak A is listed as an applicable tweak, with a relationship of "cost" for
"ItemA", which is the main item. Tweak A DOES NOT HAVE the "zrng:0-999"
attribute associated with it anymore, meaning the tweak can only be selected
once.

This did not work. Selecting "tweak A" only exposed the TweakB in the list
of options, but did not auto-select it.

5) Tweak A has "zmor:TweakB=auto" as an attribute. Tweak B has a cost of 5.
Tweak A is listed as an applicable tweak, with a relationship of "auto" for
"ItemA", which is the main item. Tweak A DOES NOT HAVE the "zrng:0-999"
attribute associated with it anymore, meaning the tweak can only be selected
once.

This is the only way that worked.

My question is this--is there something I did wrong with the first 4
options? Or is the ONLY way I can implement this option 5, which is not the
desireable option, as 1) there are a BUNCH of grenade and ammunition types
that I have to associate to a BUNCH of weapon types if the "zcln" attribute
doesn't work, and 2) ammunition and grenades are a "count-selectable" item,
not a "yes/no" selectable item, and so not having the "zrng" feature is
undesirable...

For a copy of my data file, go to the ab-files section and get Michael
Earley's inquisitor file, version 2.0. You can open the data files. Look at
the following as examples to play with:

- Item: Single Fire Grenade Launcher as "main" item (Item A in example
above). It's "GunSFGL". Also, "OtGreAmm" as the "Item B" generic grouping
of all valid grenade ammunition types for grenade launchers.
- Tweaks: "AmmAnPG", the Anti-Plant Grenades. This is "TweakA" in the
examples above. "GreRare" as Rare Grenade. This is "tweakB" in the
examples above.

m.e.

 

[rob]

At 05:51 PM 9/11/2001 -0400, you wrote:
>1) Tweak A has "zmor:TweakB=auto" as an attribute. Tweak B has a cost of 5.
>Tweak A is listed as an applicable tweak for "ItemB", which is a "generic"
>item. Item A, the "main" item in question, has an attribute of
>"zcln:ItemB". Item A has no applicable tweaks of its own--only the tweaks
>it clones from the "zcln:ItemB" attribute.

This would not work, since your use of "zcln" is incorrect.

>2) Tweak A has "zmor:TweakB=auto" as an attribute. Tweak B has a cost of 5.
>Tweak A is listed as an applicable tweak, with a relationship of "cost" for
>"ItemA", which is the main item. Tweak A has "zrng:0-999" attribute
>associated with it.

This SHOULD work. It appears this is a bug in V2.2a. I'll have to get this
fixed.

>3) Tweak A has "zmor:TweakB=auto" as an attribute. Tweak B has a cost of 5.
>Tweak A is listed as an applicable tweak, with a relationship of "auto" for
>"ItemA", which is the main item. Tweak A has "zrng:0-999" attribute
>associated with it.

This would not give you the desired results due to the "auto" link nature
on TweakA.

>4) Tweak A has "zmor:TweakB=auto" as an attribute. Tweak B has a cost of 5.
>Tweak A is listed as an applicable tweak, with a relationship of "cost" for
>"ItemA", which is the main item. Tweak A DOES NOT HAVE the "zrng:0-999"
>attribute associated with it anymore, meaning the tweak can only be selected
>once.

This SHOULD work. While this doesn't achieve the effect you are striving
for, it should work correctly. This appears to be part of the same bug
identified above.

>My question is this--is there something I did wrong with the first 4
>options? Or is the ONLY way I can implement this option 5, which is not the
>desireable option, as 1) there are a BUNCH of grenade and ammunition types
>that I have to associate to a BUNCH of weapon types if the "zcln" attribute
>doesn't work, and 2) ammunition and grenades are a "count-selectable" item,
>not a "yes/no" selectable item, and so not having the "zrng" feature is
>undesirable...

You did things correctly, but there seems to be a bug in AB. I'll have to
fix it before you can get this working the way it should be done.

Thanks, Rob

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Lone Wolf Development www.wolflair.com


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[ace at madbomber.net]

>
> At 05:51 PM 9/11/2001 -0400, you wrote:
> >1) Tweak A has "zmor:TweakB=auto" as an attribute. Tweak B
> has a cost of 5.
> >Tweak A is listed as an applicable tweak for "ItemB", which
> is a "generic"
> >item. Item A, the "main" item in question, has an attribute of
> >"zcln:ItemB". Item A has no applicable tweaks of its
> own--only the tweaks
> >it clones from the "zcln:ItemB" attribute.
>
> This would not work, since your use of "zcln" is incorrect.
>
>
One last question--when you say my use of zcln is incorrect, can you
specify? I'd like to correct it...


> You did things correctly, but there seems to be a bug in AB.
> I'll have to
> fix it before you can get this working the way it should be done.
>
> Thanks, Rob

Good to know I wasn't crazy. Quick question for those who are familiar with
the inquisitor system...based on this not working until the bug is fixed, I
have 2 options:

1) leave the "zrng:0-999" in so that you can select quantities of
ammo/toxins/grenades. This means you cannot have cost associated with that
ammo for now, so the "cost" system is broken. Not a huge issue, since costs
are relative, and not really important, in the Inq game system.

2) take out zrng:0-999 and associate costs with the toxins/ammo/grenades.
This means you can't specify a quantity (how many scatter shells you took)
but you can get the correct cost.

I'm leaning towards answer 1...thoughts?

 

[rob]

At 12:02 PM 9/14/2001 -0400, you wrote:
>One last question--when you say my use of zcln is incorrect, can you
>specify? I'd like to correct it...

Er, did I say that? <sheepish grin> I think I was on drugs or something,
since it looks correct now. My focus was on the bug, so forgive my errant
comment.

>Good to know I wasn't crazy. Quick question for those who are familiar with
>the inquisitor system...based on this not working until the bug is fixed, I
>have 2 options:

I recommend Option #3....

3. Wait for this bug to be fixed. I'm working on a V2.2b release right now.
I fixed this bug last night and V2.2b ought to be released by Monday if all
goes well.

Thanks, Rob

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Lone Wolf Development www.wolflair.com


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