System editing ...

[lazarus]

I have a couple questions about editing the d20 system. Specifically, I'm interested in writing datafiles for "total conversions" like Warlords and Everquest. So, here's the questions:

1) how do I create something that's a "Core Rule Set" and can turn off the main d20 races and classes? This is important for, as I said, Warlords and Everquest, which fully replace everything.

2) how would I do the Warlords thing of Race/Class Abilities? Specifically, a Nothrog Assassin and a Dwarf Assassin don't have (entirely) the same ability set. Specifically, what I'm after is being able to insert class abilities based on the race of the character.

3) How would I go about doing something like fully replacing the magic system? (Everquest does that) Is that doable from the editor, or would that require editing at a higher level?

Laz

 

[lazarus]

I've now done the Class tutorial, and I suspect that what's needed for #2 is to edit the "bootstrap" script conditions on the class abilities to check on whether the race is appropriate?

Laz

 

[Colen]

lazarus wrote:
>
>
> I have a couple questions about editing the d20 system. Specifically,
> I'm interested in writing datafiles for "total conversions" like
> Warlords and Everquest. So, here's the questions:
>
> 1) how do I create something that's a "Core Rule Set" and can turn off
> the main d20 races and classes? This is important for, as I said,
> Warlords and Everquest, which fully replace everything.


For a project as big as that, it's going to be easiest to simply make a
copy of the d20 system folder, and use that as your alternate system.
You can then use "Hidden" elements, described in the authoring kit
documentation, to hide all the standard races and classes, and add your own.


> 2) how would I do the Warlords thing of Race/Class Abilities?
> Specifically, a Nothrog Assassin and a Dwarf Assassin don't have
> (entirely) the same ability set. Specifically, what I'm after is being
> able to insert class abilities based on the race of the character.


You can either do as you suggested, and just use bootstrap conditions,
or you can make two separate classes if the ability sets are different
enough. Alternatively, you can check for the required race in a script,
and disable the ability if it's not present. For example:

~ If we're not an elf, disable this ability
var result as number
if (hero.tagis[Race.Elf] = 0) then
result = assign[Helper.SpcDisable]
done
endif

The Barbarian "Fast Movement" ability does this if you want to look at
an example within the editor.


> 3) How would I go about doing something like fully replacing the magic
> system? (Everquest does that) Is that doable from the editor, or would
> that require editing at a higher level?


I'm not entirely sure - how different is the EQ magic system? If it's
totally weird and different, we may add support for it.


--
Colen McAlister, colen@wolflair.com
Chief Engineer, Lone Wolf Development

 

[lazarus]

The EQ magic system is a spell point based system. I think it's fairly doable using the d20 as a base (just have a Power Point Pool rather than a Spell / Day thing).

... I'm going to have to figure out the XML to do some of what I want to do, aren't I? (this would be SO much easier if the docs were finished ....)

Laz

 

[Colen]

lazarus wrote:
>
>
> The EQ magic system is a spell point based system. I think it's fairly
> doable using the d20 as a base (just have a Power Point Pool rather than
> a Spell / Day thing).
>
> ... I'm going to have to figure out the XML to do some of what I want to
> do, aren't I? (this would be SO much easier if the docs were finished
> ....)


If it works like spell points, it sounds like you could model it using
the Psionics system. Would that work? A psionic class gets a certain
number of points per level, can learn a certain number of powers, and
can has a common pool of points that can then be used to use powers.


--
Colen McAlister, colen@wolflair.com
Chief Engineer, Lone Wolf Development

 

[lazarus]

Um. I haven't actually /read/ the EQ magic system, and even if I had, I don't actually know the Psionics system. My instinct tells me that it'll work, yes.

Laz

 

[Colen]

lazarus wrote:
>
>
> Um. I haven't actually /read/ the EQ magic system, and even if I had, I
> don't actually know the Psionics system. My instinct tells me that it'll
> work, yes.


It sounds like it'll mostly work, then. If there's a minor change that
needs to be made, we can get that incorporated into the core data files
to make it easier to implement.


--
Colen McAlister, colen@wolflair.com
Chief Engineer, Lone Wolf Development

 

[lazarus]

I'm doing some testing, to see how things are going to work. By that, I mean I'm implementing a skeleton for the Nothrog race and the Assassin class in the Warlords game. I have three issues:

1) I can't figure out how to change a class's hit die type - what I mean by this, is that the Nothrog Assassin has a d8 hit die rather than the d6 of everyone else. I don't want to clone classes, as there's only 3 abilities that are different for each. If this capability doesn't exist in the default d20 dataset, how would I go about making it go?

2) the quoted above (hero.tagis[Race.Elf]) doesn't seem to work. At least, I'm not sure how to make it work. What I mean is this: I don't know how to add in Nothrog (the id I'm using is rNoth for that) to the Race. context. Also, when my PC is an Elf, the ability is disabled, and when the PC is not an elf, the ability is still disabled. Of course, I'm not sure how to set up a script - I don't recall seeing a tutorial on that.

3) In the Class Abilities tab, there is a selection for Source. Unfortunately, this is by name and not by id, so I can't pick out which of the three (?!) "Assassin" entries is mine.

Also, I'm not sure where to look to see the Barbarian "Fast Movement" ability.

Laz

 

[lazarus]

Ok, figured out #2. At least, part of it. The "Phase" for the script should have been "Final" rather than "First" (I suppose looking at that, that makes a lot of sense).

So, the script that I'm currently using looks like this:
Phase = Final

var result as number
if (hero.tagis[Race.Elf] = 0)
result = delete[Helper.ShowSpec] ~ yes, I found the Barbarian, and want to clone its Illiteracy thing
done
endif

Now, I need to figure out how to get my races into the Race. array/structure/whatever, and then I'm good. Until I need to work on Clerics, whose abilities are instead granted by Deity. However, I believe there's actual support for that? (Domain Ability, 3 of them, at varying levels. Pick only one Domain)

[I plan on doing as little editing of the base d20 set as necessary for this one. For the other total conversions - Iron Heroes, Everquest, and so on - I know I'll need to tackle that bit]

Laz

 

[lazarus]

... I now have some more abilities added in. This is actually quite fun, now that I'm vaguely getting a hang of the scripting language.

Laz

 

[lazarus]

(for the record, I have the Race/Class ability thing all figured out, except for how I'm going to do Clerics)

I have a question: Deverenians get +2 skill points every odd level. I've figured out at least that I can give ".5" as a value for initial skill points, but I'd like to do it in a script. I've got it all done up to assigning that ... what field where do I add that to? I assume it's something like hero.child[aSkills].field[??].value += 2.

(oh, and is there a spot to put in feature requests? I'd love to see syntax highlighting on the script editor windows )

Laz

 

[Mathias]

Actually, it looks like the information on how to add skill points is not in the documentation yet. I do know where to find it though - open the file srd_adjustments.dat in the c:HeroLab/data/d20/source folder - that shows you how all the items on the adjustments tab are scripted, and is a great place to look for a timing that works. In there, I find that Skill points must either be assigned to a specific class, or added to every level.

Does this race assign the 2 skill points to whichever class you take at that level?

If so, you'll need to wait until Colen and Rob get back from their business trip (next week) to get someone to tell you how to make that work.

Since I had already started thinking about it, here's how I'd go about calculating the number of skill points added as a function of level (untested script):

var bonus as number
bonus = #totallevelcount[]
bonus = round(bonus/2,0,1)*2


To find the syntax for the round function, use your start menu to go to the same folder HL launches from, then select "Hero Lab Authoring Kit.htm", then select "Scripting Basics".

What I'm doing is using the #totallevel[] macro to get the hero's character level. Next I divide bonus by 2, round it up (level 1 = 1, level 2 = 1, level 3 = 2, etc.), then multiply by two (so, level 1 = 2, level 2 = 2, level 3 = 4)

 

[lazarus]

Getting whether to add the bonus is pretty easy:

var level as number
level = #totallevelcount[] ~total levels
if ((level - 1) % 2 == 0) then ~ we're good. Note: I haven't actually tested if == is the boolean equal, and I can't see it in the docs
~ add bonus, somehow. This is likely a "find the skill point total for the new class, and add 2 to it"
endif

Thanks for reminding me that I'm going to have to figure out which class was added, and add to that, as the program (correctly, of course) divides skill points per class.

Laz

 

[lazarus]

Whee! Now's where I hit another hard part: the Halfbreeds. Like HARP, Warlords of the Accordlands allows you to mate any two races to come out with a halfbreed. What this means is that I have to figure out a mechanism to do that in Hero Lab. Preferably, I would do it like the "Custom Abilities" picks in classes, but I don't think that's really doable for a race. So, I have two options:

1. Create a Race for each halfbreed combination (including, say, Dwarf/Elf and Elf/Dwarf, as that would be easier to find)
2. Use the Feat mechanism and some validation rules to pick up two Racial Abilities, and no more, and each different.
3. Figure out how to write GUI elements for picking them up - I'd love to be able to pop up a dialog box for getting the user options, but I doubt there's support for that yet.

#1 is probably easier, but clutters up the datafiles with duplicate entries. #2 is not very intuitive, but will likely allow me to get to know the Feat validation stuff so that when I get to the Birthright Feats and stuff, they should be easy to code #3 is what's preferable for me ... but likely requires coding on LoneWolf's end (even if it's just put a hook into the scripting language)

Laz

 

[Colen]

lazarus wrote:
>
>
> I'm doing some testing, to see how things are going to work. By that, I
> mean I'm implementing a skeleton for the Nothrog race and the Assassin
> class in the Warlords game. I have three issues:
>
> 1) I can't figure out how to change a class's hit die type - what I mean
> by this, is that the Nothrog Assassin has a d8 hit die rather than the
> d6 of everyone else. I don't want to clone classes, as there's only 3
> abilities that are different for each. If this capability doesn't exist
> in the default d20 dataset, how would I go about making it go?


Do you mean that a Nothrog assassin has a d8 hit die, but all other
assassins of other races have a d6 hit dice?

I think the easiest way to handle this would be to create a new "Class
Level" entry for the Nothrog assassin. Create the assassin as normal,
with a d6 hit dice, then go to the "Class Level" tab in the editor and
select the "Assassin" class. Then use the "Duplicate" button to make a
duplicate copy of it, and change the hit dice to 8 instead of 6.

You should probably name the duplicated class "Assassin (Nothrog)" or
something similar to distinguish it, and you can then add pre-requisites
to make sure a Nothrog doesn't take the normal assassin class.


> 2) the quoted above (hero.tagis[Race.Elf]) doesn't seem to work. At
> least, I'm not sure how to make it work. What I mean is this: I don't
> know how to add in Nothrog (the id I'm using is rNoth for that) to the
> Race. context. Also, when my PC is an Elf, the ability is disabled, and
> when the PC is not an elf, the ability is still disabled. Of course, I'm
> not sure how to set up a script - I don't recall seeing a tutorial on that.


You should be able to add a Race tag by doing the following:

1) Select the Nothrog race in the editor.
2) Scroll down the list to "Counts As Races..." in the "Important Race
Details" section.
3) Click the edit button, then click "Human" (I assume they're human?)
and "New Tag" in the list that pops up. Give the new tag an id of "Nothrog".

The "Race.Nothrog" tag should then be added to the hero whenever you're
a Nothrog.


> 3) In the Class Abilities tab, there is a selection for Source.
> Unfortunately, this is by name and not by id, so I can't pick out which
> of the three (?!) "Assassin" entries is mine.


Ah, that's a good point. I'll change it so that the id is shown as well
as the name.


> Also, I'm not sure where to look to see the Barbarian "Fast Movement"
> ability.


Go to the "Class Special" tab and hit the "New (Copy)" button, then
scroll down the list until you see "Fast Movement". Once you copy the
Fast Movement ability, you can look at all the scripts it has, then
delete it when you're done.


Hope this helps,

--
Colen McAlister, colen@wolflair.com
Chief Engineer, Lone Wolf Development

 

[Colen]

lazarus wrote:
>
>
> (for the record, I have the Race/Class ability thing all figured out,
> except for how I'm going to do Clerics)
>
> I have a question: Deverenians get +2 skill points every odd level. I've
> figured out at least that I can give ".5" as a value for initial skill
> points, but I'd like to do it in a script. I've got it all done up to
> assigning that ... what field where do I add that to? I assume it's
> something like hero.child[aSkills].field[??].value += 2.


Wow... 2 skill points every other level? What's wrong with 1 skill point
every level?

OK, that's going to be... interesting. We're going to need to iterate
through all the class levels you have, then add 1 skill point to every
odd-numbered one (or even-numbered, if that's how it works).

So, I think this is what we need to do, as an eval script on the
Devernian race (First / 10000 will do). It's kinda complex, but it works.

~ Set up some variables we'll need later
var index as number
var points as number
var classindex as number

~ Iterate through all class levels
foreach pick in hero where "component.BaseClass"

~ Get the index of this level within the list of class levels.
index = each.field[cIndex].value

~ If the index is odd, we want to add 2 skill points.
~ Otherwise, 0.
if (index % 2 = 1) then
points = 2
else
points = 0
endif

~ Get the index of this class's skill point totals
~ in the list of classes.
classindex = each.linkage[helper].field[cClsIndex].value

~ Add the skill points to the class total.
hero.child[Totals].field[tSkTotals].arrayvalue[classindex] += points
nexteach


You'll notice at the end we're doing something funky - the total count
of skill points for each class is maintained in an array in the Totals
pick. We have to find the right place in that array and add the right
number of points to it.


> (oh, and is there a spot to put in feature requests? I'd love to see
> syntax highlighting on the script editor windows )


I'd love it too, but unfortunately I think it will be very hard. I've
added it to the list, but don't hold your breath for it.


--
Colen McAlister, colen@wolflair.com
Chief Engineer, Lone Wolf Development

 

[lazarus]

Do you mean that a Nothrog assassin has a d8 hit die, but all other assassins of other races have a d6 hit dice?

Indeed.

I think the easiest way to handle this would be to create a new "Class
Level" entry for the Nothrog assassin. Create the assassin as normal,
with a d6 hit dice, then go to the "Class Level" tab in the editor and
select the "Assassin" class. Then use the "Duplicate" button to make a
duplicate copy of it, and change the hit dice to 8 instead of 6.

You should probably name the duplicated class "Assassin (Nothrog)" or
something similar to distinguish it, and you can then add pre-requisites
to make sure a Nothrog doesn't take the normal assassin class.

I know I could do it that way ... is there a way to alter the class list depending on character race? 'cause, really, I would prefer to have things autoselect. Is it possible to have the Class bootstrap the appropriate Class Level in a script, or is that something that's not doable at the moment? Can it be added in easily if it's not there already?

You should be able to add a Race tag by doing the following:

Found.

> 3) In the Class Abilities tab, there is a selection for Source.
> Unfortunately, this is by name and not by id, so I can't pick out which
> of the three (?!) "Assassin" entries is mine.


Ah, that's a good point. I'll change it so that the id is shown as well
as the name.

thanks, that'll make life easier

> Also, I'm not sure where to look to see the Barbarian "Fast Movement"
> ability.


Go to the "Class Special" tab and hit the "New (Copy)" button, then
scroll down the list until you see "Fast Movement". Once you copy the
Fast Movement ability, you can look at all the scripts it has, then
delete it when you're done.

Cool. Hadn't thought of doing that. I just found it in the xml and looked at that

Hope this helps

Thanks. Have anything on my further problems? (specifically, the Halfbreed thing, and the Deverenian Skill Point deal)

Colen McAlister, colen@wolflair.com
Chief Engineer, Lone Wolf Development

Laz

 

[Colen]

lazarus wrote:
>
>
> Whee! Now's where I hit another hard part: the Halfbreeds. Like HARP,
> Warlords of the Accordlands allows you to mate any two races to come out
> with a halfbreed. What this means is that I have to figure out a
> mechanism to do that in Hero Lab. Preferably, I would do it like the
> "Custom Abilities" picks in classes, but I don't think that's really
> doable for a race. So, I have two options:
>
>
> 1. Create a Race for each halfbreed combination (including, say,
> Dwarf/Elf and Elf/Dwarf, as that would be easier to find)
> 2. Use the Feat mechanism and some validation rules to pick up two
> Racial Abilities, and no more, and each different.
> 3. Figure out how to write GUI elements for picking them up - I'd
> love to be able to pop up a dialog box for getting the user
> options, but I doubt there's support for that yet.
>
>
>
> #1 is probably easier, but clutters up the datafiles with duplicate
> entries. #2 is not very intuitive, but will likely allow me to get to
> know the Feat validation stuff so that when I get to the Birthright
> Feats and stuff, they should be easy to code #3 is what's preferable
> for me ... but likely requires coding on LoneWolf's end (even if it's
> just put a hook into the scripting language)


I'm not sure how to handle this because I'm not exactly sure how
Halfbreeds work. If I pick a halfbreed elf/dwarf, what does that mean?
Do I get all the elf and dwarf special abilities, or do I have to pick a
certain number from a specific list?


--
Colen McAlister, colen@wolflair.com
Chief Engineer, Lone Wolf Development

 

[Colen]

lazarus wrote:
> I think the easiest way to handle this would be to create a new "Class
> Level" entry for the Nothrog assassin. Create the assassin as normal,
> with a d6 hit dice, then go to the "Class Level" tab in the editor and
> select the "Assassin" class. Then use the "Duplicate" button to make a
> duplicate copy of it, and change the hit dice to 8 instead of 6.
>
> You should probably name the duplicated class "Assassin (Nothrog)" or
> something similar to distinguish it, and you can then add pre-requisites
> to make sure a Nothrog doesn't take the normal assassin class.

> I know I could do it that way ... is there a way to alter the class list
> depending on character race? 'cause, really, I would prefer to have
> things autoselect. Is it possible to have the Class bootstrap the
> appropriate Class Level in a script, or is that something that's not
> doable at the moment? Can it be added in easily if it's not there already?


Class levels bootstrap classes, so doing it the other way around
wouldn't work. Ah, actually, you should be able to do it like this:

if (hero.tagis[Race.Nothrog] <> 0) then
field[cHitDice].value = 8
endif

At that as an eval script on the class level, and everything should work
nicely.


> Thanks. Have anything on my further problems? (specifically, the
> Halfbreed thing, and the Deverenian Skill Point deal)

Those replies should be posting very soon, if they aren't there already.



--
Colen McAlister, colen@wolflair.com
Chief Engineer, Lone Wolf Development

 

[lazarus]

The way Halfbreeds work is this: basically, you choose your two parent races, and you get a specific ratial ability for each (that is, there is an Elf Halfbreed ability and a Dwarf Halfbreed ability, and your Elf/Dwarf would have those, and none of the others)

Laz