Lord Lorne Walkier
Member
Perhaps we could all send GW a message some how? So that our question here becomes a FAQ? I work around the problem by buying my sergeants Melta bombs and a Teleport homer to counts as a plasma pistol but that is Meh.
-
Please note: In an effort to ensure that all of our users feel welcome on our forums, we’ve updated our forum rules. You can review the updated rules here: http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=5528.
If a fellow Community member is not following the forum rules, please report the post by clicking the Report button (the red yield sign on the left) located on every post. This will notify the moderators directly. If you have any questions about these new rules, please contact support@wolflair.com.
- The Lone Wolf Development Team
Space marine sergeant weapon options
- Thread starter Infernus
- Start date
No, it's wrong, AB40k devs said so therefore it must be true... (sarcasm)
So this was weird to me too. The rule seems pretty clear to me.
I'm no expert, but i poked around with the data file.
Open the builder from the developer tab in AB.
Open the data file you want to edit, doing Imperial Fists, for example, then open if6EDat.dat, Space marine in something like SM6edition or something.
On the unit tab, scroll down to SgtTac and select it. On the right hand side, I found Linksets. There are 4. One is if6_Melee1. Click Manage.
Click Edit after selecting the Melee field. I changed mine to if6_Melee2. Closed, then saved. Opened AB again and went to IF roster, loaded a Tactical squad and got both options.
Not intuitive, but it works.
I'm no expert, but i poked around with the data file.
Open the builder from the developer tab in AB.
Open the data file you want to edit, doing Imperial Fists, for example, then open if6EDat.dat, Space marine in something like SM6edition or something.
On the unit tab, scroll down to SgtTac and select it. On the right hand side, I found Linksets. There are 4. One is if6_Melee1. Click Manage.
Click Edit after selecting the Melee field. I changed mine to if6_Melee2. Closed, then saved. Opened AB again and went to IF roster, loaded a Tactical squad and got both options.
Not intuitive, but it works.
That's great, but where does that leave the rest of us?
I couldn't get this to change anything, so I'll just stick with Battlescribe for now, until somebody admits they're wrong and upates AB accordingly, but then, so many things are missing from AB now it's become useless to me anyhow.
I was a bit surprised by this as well.
both RAW and RAI seems pretty clear and (for once) in agreement.
You are clearly told that you can replace Bolt pistol/ Bolt Gun with a chain sword. This is denoted with a bulletpoint.(which in common english(or more or less any language that utilize bullet points ) grammar indicates a string of textual events with a hierarchical order of precedence. Linguistically speaking there is no doubt that speech act "replace..." is directive (it offers an advice or command) and comissive (it dictates further action/) and it takes place before (and in the textual hierarchy) above the "take from list" which is also directive and comissive.We do not (at least not in english grammat) allow for an optional reading direction).
Both "Replace... and "take from list..." alter the same subject, but we do not have the grammatical option to select which one takes precedence. The use of bullet point and the standardized reading order dictates that the sarge must replace the sword (or not) before he even gets to choose from the lists. That means the subject arrives at the textual event "replace" either: Bolt gun & Bolt Pistol /Bolt gun & Chain sword/ Bolt Pistol & chain sword /chain sword. and must complete it before passing on.
As the choice is comissive and directive and comissive (ortherwise they wouldn't have any meaning)the subject is now altered. Now it arrives at the next bullet point and the altered subject can now pick options based on its current status.
Note how melee/ranged lists are not seperated by bullet points. That because to do so would allow the sergeant to replace picks from the melee lists with picks from the ranged list (meaning he would first pay for a melee pick and then replace it (not getting a refund) with picks from the ranged list. That would have silly effects...
So it is not a conflict of RAW vs RAI but a question about understanding grammar I am sorry to say.
both RAW and RAI seems pretty clear and (for once) in agreement.
You are clearly told that you can replace Bolt pistol/ Bolt Gun with a chain sword. This is denoted with a bulletpoint.(which in common english(or more or less any language that utilize bullet points ) grammar indicates a string of textual events with a hierarchical order of precedence. Linguistically speaking there is no doubt that speech act "replace..." is directive (it offers an advice or command) and comissive (it dictates further action/) and it takes place before (and in the textual hierarchy) above the "take from list" which is also directive and comissive.We do not (at least not in english grammat) allow for an optional reading direction).
Both "Replace... and "take from list..." alter the same subject, but we do not have the grammatical option to select which one takes precedence. The use of bullet point and the standardized reading order dictates that the sarge must replace the sword (or not) before he even gets to choose from the lists. That means the subject arrives at the textual event "replace" either: Bolt gun & Bolt Pistol /Bolt gun & Chain sword/ Bolt Pistol & chain sword /chain sword. and must complete it before passing on.
As the choice is comissive and directive and comissive (ortherwise they wouldn't have any meaning)the subject is now altered. Now it arrives at the next bullet point and the altered subject can now pick options based on its current status.
Note how melee/ranged lists are not seperated by bullet points. That because to do so would allow the sergeant to replace picks from the melee lists with picks from the ranged list (meaning he would first pay for a melee pick and then replace it (not getting a refund) with picks from the ranged list. That would have silly effects...
So it is not a conflict of RAW vs RAI but a question about understanding grammar I am sorry to say.
cryptoknight
Well-known member
Maybe I'm missing something here, but with my Tac Marine Squad I can legally equip both a Power Sword and a Plasma pistol onto my sergeant without it throwing any validation errors.
Don't know how, because it won't let us equip both at all, not a validation error it just plain refuses. How does your tac sgt look? I mean on screen, down the right hands side what options do you have?
Mine shows Boltgun, Bolt pistol, if I deselect them I have 2 lists, one of melee weapons, one of ranged, and then of course 2 options for Chainsword at the top of those last 2 lists. If I select for example 'Power Sword' all but one of the Chainswords becomes greyed out and disabled.
Mine shows Boltgun, Bolt pistol, if I deselect them I have 2 lists, one of melee weapons, one of ranged, and then of course 2 options for Chainsword at the top of those last 2 lists. If I select for example 'Power Sword' all but one of the Chainswords becomes greyed out and disabled.
cryptoknight
Well-known member
Ok using Blood Angels as my chapter.
X Infantry
Blank Bolt Pistol
Blank Boltgun
+1 Plasma Pistol
+1 Power Sword
x Frag Grenades
x Krak Grenades
x Power Armor
X Infantry
Blank Bolt Pistol
Blank Boltgun
+1 Plasma Pistol
+1 Power Sword
x Frag Grenades
x Krak Grenades
x Power Armor
cryptoknight
Well-known member
Ah, you will then, Blood Angels aren't a Codex chapter. Try Ultras or Space Marines instead. That is where the issue lies as they are a different codex.
And by the way, I wouldn't expect to see any updates too quickly, one of the maintainers has quit, and from what he said the other 2 aren't far behind.
And by the way, I wouldn't expect to see any updates too quickly, one of the maintainers has quit, and from what he said the other 2 aren't far behind.
And by the way, I wouldn't expect to see any updates too quickly, one of the maintainers has quit, and from what he said the other 2 aren't far behind.
Misquoted.
I said I stepped down and was unaware of the intentions of the other 2. I know for fact one is still working on the files, but his focus is not SM, he happens to be working on the Nids.
cryptoknight
Well-known member
It doesn't look to hard to modify.... but I then noticed that unlike herolab I don't have the option to create a thing that overrides a thing... or at least not that I saw. Sad really... makes me wonder if I screwed up buying Armybuilder since I bought it solely for 40k
Army builder is a very robust tool and not as simple as many people first assume. I suggest taking a look at the a creator demo for how to edit files using the test files provided to get a basic foundation before trying to edit the 40k files. The 40k files use a lot of processing and options that many other games simply do not need.
THANK-YOU THANK-YOU THANK-YOU THANK-YOU THANK-YOU
Thank you for making this change for us.
I wish I could better extend my gratitude in a way that would actually reward the Data File authors. Not just for this change, but for all the work those guys do to make my Hobby so much better.
Thank-You!!!
P.S. Could you make the same change on the Iron Hand file? Luv ya.
Thank you for making this change for us.
I wish I could better extend my gratitude in a way that would actually reward the Data File authors. Not just for this change, but for all the work those guys do to make my Hobby so much better.
Thank-You!!!
P.S. Could you make the same change on the Iron Hand file? Luv ya.
Harkan_again
Well-known member
I'm not trying to jump in on the topic matter as I quit 40k a long while back for a range of reasons - I just wanted to say I'm sorry to hear JLong has dropped out of the AB40k maintainers. It is a thankless task with some thanks but frequent complaints that at times become downright abusive (please don't jump down my neck this isn't aimed at anyone on here). The 40k files take a whole lot of work and despite people being reminded that the authors do it for free in their own time they get harangued and hassled over the usual GW word splitting/poor phrasing.
Sorry to hear the new JLong, I hope you stay working on other AB files as it would be a great loss if you dropped off completely (trust me, it pulls ya back again!!)