Sooooo convince me

[Bebberino]

Thanks again everyone

I now need things to go on sale, LOL

 

[Redjack]

That's piecemeal access

Granted.

often without fidelity

"Often" being the operative word.

putting it all back together again entails so much effort that it's just not worth it

Depends upon the audience, but I agree in principle.

So the objective of security is to make sure that nobody can extract a sufficiently substantive chunk in a cohesive manner that piracy becomes attractive.

Rather, in Realm Works case, that it is easier to use a different method to import or pirate works than using Realm Works secured data as the source.

In any case, I love Realm Works, think it's a great product and use it in all my games. Looking forward to the Marketplace.
-RJ

 

[Strategon]

I have no idea what you are basing your assumptions on, but they are absolutely WRONG. The entire design of Realm Works is to achieve EXACTLY what you are describing as the objective for every GM.

Prior to the launch of the upcoming Content Market, there has been NO NEED for any security. However, we've got extensive security baked into the product, which will become apparent with all published material that we offer.

A key thing that Realm Works will allow beyond a product like Fantasy Grounds is for users to seamlessly weave separate pieces of published material together into a unified whole. They can integrate content from multiple different publishers (and game systems) together in whatever way they like. They can customize it to their heart's content. They can extend it, strip out portions, change things around, and ultimately weave it in with their own material to yield a campaign world that exactly fits their personal vision. That's the Holy Grail for every GM that I've ever known, and that's what Realm Works is finally turning into reality.

And it will all be TOTALLY SECURE for the publisher.

Please don't spread misinformation like this as assertions of fact. It's a disservice to the entire RPG community to do so. If you think something might be cause for concern, absolutely ask the question so that someone can provide you with the accurate answer. But please get the facts before making assertions. Thanks!

Thanks for the rebuke Rob, while I am not intentionally attempting to spread misinformation, If I am misinformed I completely own that. So, if I purchase content and import it into a realm, can I click edit and edit said purchased information? Here is the article where I derived my assumption:

If you manage to convince content creators to put their IP in RW content market, with a permission to alter any of their copy written content to suite the whims of the purchaser; you sir a a saint and worth any homage you receive from it!

WOTC guards their IP with ferocity and are extremely anal retentive about how it is used.

 

[Strategon]

Thanks for the rebuke Rob, while I am not intentionally attempting to spread misinformation, If I am misinformed I completely own that. So, if I purchase content and import it into a realm, can I click edit and edit said purchased information? Here is the article where I derived my assumption:

"With the Realm Works Content Market, users will be able to do just that! Find a character, a random monster, a tavern, a city or a whole adventure – then drop it in and go! More importantly, once you’ve dropped ready-made content into your world, you are free to modify it however you choose for your game. Don’t like a name? Change it. Need to replace an NPC with someone important in your existing world? Swap it in. Do a new location need to be properly integrated into your campaign? Revise it and hook it up as you deem appropriate. Never before have GMs been able to seamlessly weave external content into their own worlds like this."

http://www.wolflair.com/realmworks/features/content-market/

If you manage to convince content creators to put their IP in RW content market, with a permission to alter any of their copy written content to suite the whims of the purchaser; you sir a a saint and worth any homage you receive from it!

WOTC guards their IP with ferocity and are extremely anal retentive about how it is used.

 

[daplunk]

While they may guard it I think their concerns are catered for here.

I would assume (and hopeful) LW and WOTC will sit down and agree on a license which will enable LW to sell the official content. I'm hoping that will apply to HL also.

I would expect to see the PHB, MM, DMG, Supplements and Adventure Modules.
I would expect to see the books sold in the format they are currently sold just via Realm Works.

Which will be amazing.. but...

What I would LOVE to see is generic content made for the Forgotten Realm. The ability for users to submit content designed for the Forgotten Realms and other popular settings. A map of the Realm filled with content and pins and links. Wouldn't it be lovely!

But that won't be possible.

The only place that allows that is the DMsGuild.com

What Realm Work would really benefit from is the same license arrangement that applies to the DMsGuild.

That would open the door for the people to get really creative. Use the rules and content from the books as they see fit.

I personally doubt that will happen but remain optimistic.

 

[AEIOU]

Modification and integration is the whole point of RW.

You can edit anything you import and you can do anything you want with it. It will however still be flagged as belonging to the original publisher. My understanding is if you add NPCs or encounters from a published module to one that you create, you will not be able to upload yours to the marketplace to share with other people as your own, even if you change the names and such.

If on the other hand you copy/paste that same material from a PDF or printed module, you could modify names and such to incorporate it into your own work. Depending on how much modification you make, it may still be infringing but it would probably require someone to report it.

 

[kbs666]

If you manage to convince content creators to put their IP in RW content market, with a permission to alter any of their copy written content to suite the whims of the purchaser; you sir a a saint and worth any homage you receive from it!

WOTC guards their IP with ferocity and are extremely anal retentive about how it is used.

There really isn't an issue. As long as the buyer isn't then redistributing the altered content then he is well within his rights as the purchaser of the content. Every RPG content creator has always produced material knowing that GM's were likely to buy the material and hack it to pieces and use the bits they wanted and change it in all sorts of ways. RW is very much the natural evolution of that.

 

[Strategon]

There really isn't an issue. As long as the buyer isn't then redistributing the altered content then he is well within his rights as the purchaser of the content. Every RPG content creator has always produced material knowing that GM's were likely to buy the material and hack it to pieces and use the bits they wanted and change it in all sorts of ways. RW is very much the natural evolution of that.

Possibly, but IP holders general don't give the medium of transmission (Realm Works) a carte blanche license to redistribute their property without protecting it. Not to say that they aren't working out special agreements to do so, it's just not a conventional practice.

As Rob stated earlier, I have -0- knowledge of what agreements LW has obtained to redistribute IP; only mentioned it because it FG went through a lot of work to obtain their licensing for WOTC products and there are lots of stipulations, including not allowing any of the content to be altered in any way.

 

[kbs666]

Possibly, but IP holders general don't give the medium of transmission (Realm Works) a carte blanche license to redistribute their property without protecting it. Not to say that they aren't working out special agreements to do so, it's just not a conventional practice.

As Rob stated earlier, I have -0- knowledge of what agreements LW has obtained to redistribute IP; only mentioned it because it FG went through a lot of work to obtain their licensing for WOTC products and there are lots of stipulations, including not allowing any of the content to be altered in any way.

RW is taking steps to protect content producers IP. That's why when you export material you can password protect it.

However nothing in IP law says that a purchaser cannot do whatever they want with their personal copy of something as long as they don't try to sell it as their own product.

You wouldn't suggest that people playing 5e using home brew rules are somehow violating WotC's IP would you?

 

[Strategon]

You wouldn't suggest that people playing 5e using home brew rules are somehow violating WotC's IP would you?

Nope, I'm not suggesting that at all; however, what I am stating is that when you use the IP of anything copy written, it doesn't give you the right to alter it any way unless permission is granted in the user agreement that is assumed you accepted when you purchased said IP.

As an example even in the OGL from WOTC they list this:

Q: What are the penalties for violating the terms of the License?

A: You are potentially liable to three groups of people, for various types of lawsuits.

First, you could be sued by anyone listed in the COPYRIGHT NOTICE section related to any Open Game Content you copied, modified or distributed. Second, you could be sued by anyone who receives Open Game Content from you and relies on you to ensure that your work conforms to the terms of the License who subsequently discovers problems with the Open Game Content they received from you. Third, you could be sued by someone with a copyright or trademark interest in the work you've distributed, even if you did so while relying on a previous publisher's representation that they had followed the terms of the License.

You could be sued for a copyright infringement, you could be sued for misuse of a trademark, you could be sued for breach of contract, and you could be sued for any number of torts related to those three actions.

If you have concerns about the scope of your liability under the Open Game License, you should consult with your legal counsel.

Many do not realize that when you buy a product (Intellectual property) such as the Monster Manual, Player's Handbook, etc., while you own the book, you do not own anything in the book. In fact, you are essentially leasing the right to use what is in the book as the copyright holder states that they want you to use it.

This is why I followed up my original post with a quote from LW that stated:

More importantly, once you’ve dropped ready-made content into your world, you are free to modify it however you choose for your game.

The companies that are allowing us to do this through RW with their IP are taking a brave leap past the norms of the copyright world and as such, I will support wholeheartedly for doing so.

Having worked with WOTC in the past, and by experience knowing how difficult they are to work with in this area, I don't see them ever allowing any of their IP to be sold with the possibility of being edited like that.

In the end, I certainly realize my opinion means nothing; however, the companies that are allowing this I will go out of my way to support for being so community friendly.

This is what LW listed in the same article I quoted above as initial content in the market:

• “Pirate’s Guide to Freeport” from Green Ronin Publishing (all systems)
• “The Freeport Companion” from Green Ronin Publishing (Pathfinder and Fate)
• “Razor Coast” from Frog God Games (Pathfinder)
• “Blood Drive Trilogy” from Pinnacle Entertainment (Deadlands – Savage Worlds)
• “Grande Temple of Jing” from Hammerdog Games (Pathfinder)
• “Masks: 1,000 Memorable NPCs for Any Roleplaying Game” from Engine Publishing (all systems)
• “Eureka: 501 Adventure Plots to Inspire Game Masters” from Engine Publishing (all systems)
• “Never Unprepared: The Complete Game Masters Guide to Session Prep” from Engine Publishing (all systems)
• “Halls of the Mountain King” from Kobold Press (Pathfinder)
• “The Blight” from Frog God Games (Pathfinder)
• “Isle of Kandril” from Super Genius Games (Pathfinder)

 

[kbs666]

You are misrepresenting what is being discussed in that OGL FAQ.

The OGL is not something you must agree to before you play D&D like a UA at the start of a software installation. The OGL is the license under which anyone may produce content for D&D without directly negotiating a license with Hasbro first.

So of course the OGL assumes that the material being discussed has been sold and includes an FAQ entry about what happens if you break the rules.

 

[Exmortis]

Something that needs to be said here.

Fair use (fair dealings in Canada) is at work, despite publishers desire to inform you.

You can make as many copies of what you buy for your personal use. That is fair. You can modify what you bought, for personal use, that is fair. To my research no ne has been ever convicted of this in court. But please cite them if this is the case.

Publishers will ensure to scare you into thinking that you have no rights when dealing with copyrighted material, but that is just not the case. Each country is different, Canada actually allows you in law to make as many copies of music on as many mediums as you wish, as long as it is for your personal use as an example.

If you buy the MM, take a beholder, modify it and then use it in your campaign, the publisher can do nothing about it. However if you then make that available to others, even free, you are indeed breaking the law.

So inputting a module you own into RW and modifying as how you see fit, is not going to get the lawyers after you. But sharing it within the market, can, and LWD can also be held accountable if itcould be shown as not taking steps to stop it.

Likewise allowing modification of a purchased module that cannot be shared is fair and in the publishers best interest. You still need to buy it, they get their money. As they did for a song, book, or what ever.

The quantifier for copyright law is essentially; does your use degrade its value. Giving it away sure does, but using it personally, however you do it, does not, as you paid its value and have in no way degraded its intrinsic value to others.

I am not a lawyer but I have been reading on this, researching it because as one can imagine with so much IP now in my RW, I want to know what am I allowed to do.

Also as anyone who followed the RIAA's draconian "take everyone court" years led to almost complete failure, what publishers want you to believe is not really true.

 

[Dakadin]

Possibly, but IP holders general don't give the medium of transmission (Realm Works) a carte blanche license to redistribute their property without protecting it. Not to say that they aren't working out special agreements to do so, it's just not a conventional practice.

As Rob stated earlier, I have -0- knowledge of what agreements LW has obtained to redistribute IP; only mentioned it because it FG went through a lot of work to obtain their licensing for WOTC products and there are lots of stipulations, including not allowing any of the content to be altered in any way.

You can modify WOTC products in FG. It works similar to the way they are saying it will work in RW. You can't export their products and they encrypt the modules. You can make changes to them within your current campaign but some items like NPCs need to be moved from the module to your campaign before you can make modifications.

I've done it with 5E modules in FG. It's great because my group is larger than the usual recommended size and I can prep the changes required ahead of time if I want.

 

[ColinBuckler]

I would really like to run a campaign that is as interlinked as the 3 Pathfinder games I am a part of are. Now what do I mean by that, well in 2 games I play siblings, one game has one sibling, the other their younger brother. In the game I DM it is set a few years later and one of their nephews is in it.

I want to be able to emulate that, if possible.

I want to have it so other DM's that run games that I know and agree to it can input their information for their games also, with appropriate access given to the people that have a 'need to know'.

Specifically I am curious if have Golarion, it will show who is the ruler of Varisia, who rules Cheliax and what not.

Now I do understand that a good portion of that will be purchasable content, BUT is it possible.

You in essence need a database to contain this information and access it which will then provide access to your users and allow them to only see the data they have the right to.

RW does a good job doing a front end to this - but then you have the ongoing licensing costs as well as well as potential issues in linking the data and allowing the other users to manage it/update it. You could be looking at 3 accounts for each DM, each needing a license cost.

Roll20 and FG are completely different products as they are VTT's and should not really be compared to RW - though yes they could roughly do what you want.

Have you thought about looking at a Wiki?

You can have a Wiki with different permissions for other users making some data available to you, public or named registered users.

A wiki can be online (web server) or offline (WAMP server).

You could potentially host a single wiki database and partition it, or several wiki databases - one per GM with an overall database for the world.

I have used DokuWiki in the past for RPG (see: http://www.cannockgamesclub.co.uk/wiki/doku.php?id=user:lewis:start covering a 7 year campaign with links)

The best thing about it - DokuWiki is free.

Only cost you may occur is in a public hosted web site.
Offline you can use WAMP (which is free) to run a web server/php on a USB stick and install DokuWiki (which is also free).

See:
https://www.dokuwiki.org/dokuwiki#
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WampServer

 

[kbs666]

You could be looking at 3 accounts for each DM, each needing a license cost.

I cannot for the life of me imagine a scenario where anyone would need or require more than one RW login.

 

[MNBlockHead]

I looked at using a wiki, it is no where near as convenient and powerful as RealmWorks. A wiki, OneNote, or Evernote are better than paper or word-processing docs,but none are as useful for world building and actually running your game as Realm Works.

 

[ColinBuckler]

I cannot for the life of me imagine a scenario where anyone would need or require more than one RW login.

I ment to say 1 for each DM so they can record their unique notes and restrict access to the other potential DM's when playing as they all share and DM in the same world. He did say he wanted to do this in his original post.

So if RW can have campaign partitioning between different DM's hiding campaign sensitive information from each other and a public area for all to use then it meets his requirements as set out in the initial post.

In my opinion none of the 3 products cited will do this, which is why I suggested DokuWiki as an option. A wiki does have its own issues and limitations accepted - but I was working on his original requirements.

I accept for a single DM RW would most likely be the best product unless he wanted a VTT then he should look at FG, Roll20, Maptools.

 

[Silveras]

Currently. a Realm can have only 1 owner... no "co-DM" support in any way. I don't see that changing anytime soon .. it is pretty core to the design of access in Realm Works. It would likely be faster to start over.

As the Content Market gets more fleshed out, and other planned features get some attention (specifically such as per-character control over revealed information), then one Realm representing 2 or more campaigns of separate characters in the same world becomes more possible.

Being able to Copy and Export/Import now would allow the same base campaign world to support 2 or more separate games in the same setting. The owner of the base would need to incorporate changes from the other two, and managing conflicting merges, but it would be do-able. So GM1 can run a campaign in "MyWorld A" and GM2 can have a campaign in "MyWorld B" ... and even exchange updates to Topics between them.

The key is the IDs. If the original MyWorld is exported and then imported by the GMs into MyWorld A and MyWorld B, they can export updated Topics and exchange them with each other ... while the original MyWorld remains unchanged (or they can also share the changes with the original world).

This is not so good if the two MyWorld A and B versions can have conflicting changes.. but new content added to the original MyWorld can still be sent as an updated export to the GMs of MyWorld A and MyWorld B.

The keys to successfully doing this are: a) planning and b) discipline. This isn't something that is going to work well if the people involved get careless. But it CAN be done.

Of course, the other factor is you can't export purchased (protected) material... but if it is your homebrew material, you can do that as much as you like.

 

[Farling]

So GM1 can run a campaign in "MyWorld A" and GM2 can have a campaign in "MyWorld B" ... and even exchange updates to Topics between them.

I think the main issue is to ensure that only one GM is response for each particular topic; since each topic gets tagged as to which export file it belongs in.

 

[Talley Darkstar]

You know what though... I'm going to think on this further...

How can RW be used in conjunction with the big name VTT's via a network...

Let me ponder on that for a while.

Ya know what daplunk, I'd like to see this too. With the tools that I'm using, RW into a VTT is something I've been pondering as well and seeing someone who actually can use RW (I've got the player edition and have been waiting quite some time to update to the GM version) and see what can be done.

In my limited knowledge, copy/paste. LOL