Realm Works Users' Vent in the HLO Forum

[daplunk]

Thanks for the response Rob.

I think it's safe to say that many of us knew and understood the reasons for the path taken. I've said in a few different places that I believe you did what had to be done.

My original post was to bring to attention the outstanding issues that were introduced after the decision was made. I for one can go on using RW for a long long time (even without Calendars) but HLC integration and ability to import are critical.

Thanks for the info regarding the HLC Integration. That's not information I was aware of and if I wasn't aware I'd wager many others were also not aware. Can we recommend the forums are cleaned up and stickies made to bring attention to the current state of Realm Works and the known work-around for this issue documented and pinned? Honestly I would think the Content Market should also be updated with some information as to the known limitations. This would help avoid confusion for new customers. We still see them pop into the social circles occasionally. It might give some confidence back to those who would be purchasing content if they knew that a workaround was available.

In regards to the import bugs. 255 was never formally released and I would call your attention to the forums where multiple users reported issues with 255. People were uninstalling it and reverting back to 253 in order to maintain the ability to import/export. I never tested it myself in fear of loosing... well part of my soul.

People talking about issues with 255

Glad to see you have recovered from the awful time you were having the last time we spoke. I for one know how close you were to Realm Works and wish it had turned out more successful for all involved.

 

[Valyar]

At present, there is no mechanism within Realm Works to simultaneously support both 32-bit and 64-bit versions of the same external tool, and that's further complicated by the fact that Realm Works itself is only a 32-bit application. Adding this capability would entail a non-trivial amount of work.

I am confused. Isn't RW 64bit application? In 1.0.1086.246 is stated that there is full support for running as 64-bit application. Task Manager reports Platform as 64bit, and now when you mentioned the quoted statement I ran the executable via sigcheck and it shows 32-bit MachineType.

How so RW is 32-bit? What is the truth?

 

[lancealittle]

@Rob, i understand the path you took for RW, but i still dont like it - its a genuine loss to most of the RW users out there...
Would you be so kind as to clarify something for me - sidelined, here in the UK businesses, means put aside. It does not mean 'retired', for want of a better word. Is RW permanently 'retired / sidelined / benched' ? or is there the smallest chance that in the future it may start being developed sometime, even if part-time ?
regards.

 

[nightpanda2810]

Rob,

Please set up a RW Patreon. If you're concerned about setting that up and not getting enough contribution, get a survey out to see how many would contribute. I certainly would, as I want RW to be continue to be the end-all campaign manager. This Patreon account should ONLY be used for Realm Works and nothing else; you've said it yourself, HL is having no trouble supporting itself.

You can also do paid upgrades for big features. Everybody hates micro transactions, but sometimes they make sense, and from what you've said here that may be what's needed for RW. You could even have one of the Patreon tiers include free upgrades to this.

If a V3.0 were to come out, paid upgrade, my wishlist would be:

• Dark Mode. Seriously, I'd drop $60 JUST for this. RW is the only thing I use now that blinds me during a game.
• Calendars
• Error messages that users can understand. IE; Error in Snippet 5 in topic "World News" preventing import/export.
• More robust import/export features/options. I get annoyed when I have "overwrite" checked and it creates "quest01" instead of overwriting them.
• In the same vein as the previous two points, complete the import with errors; just skip the part that failed.

As for 255, it was released about 10 months ago, and introduced a different import bug. Daplunk provided a link to the forum post about it.

As for 64-bit, what? Didn't it go 64 a LONG time ago? I remember being excited about it when that came out, now you're saying its not?

I am confused. Isn't RW 64bit application? In 1.0.1086.246 is stated that there is full support for running as 64-bit application. Task Manager reports Platform as 64bit, and now when you mentioned the quoted statement I ran the executable via sigcheck and it shows 32-bit MachineType.

How so RW is 32-bit? What is the truth?

Looked myself at the patch notes right from the launcher:

Realm Works® Version 1.0.1086.246
There is now full support for running as a 64-bit application. If your computer supports 64-bits, the product will automatically run in 64-bit.

 

[kbs666]

I do appreciate the hard work and passion Rob has put into RW. I want that clear from the start.

However:

1) RW is a 64 bit application. Not only has Rob said so I can run it through a decompiler and check that for myself. There should be no issue having it launch another 64 bit or 32 bit application.
2) Build 255 is broken worse than 254 at least for me. I can work around the issues in 254 to create exports. In 255 I can not export AT ALL. I am not the only one to report issues of this sort.

I do humbly ask that Rob let the community, that is still passionate about this product, help him monetize it. Get the import/export issue fixed, if necessary I'm sure I'm not the only coder that would be willing to take a look gratis. Find a couple of people you trust to look over submissions to verify they aren't copyright violations or otherwise unacceptable. Then put them up for a reasonable, low fee. Villages, inns, small dungeons. the sorts of things that GM's are always in need of and that due to the nature of RW slot in very easily. Take a big cut, the creators know going in what they are doing. Get some buzz going. that is the only way you'll get people to buy the program and build the user base. Without an expanded user base no other plan to monetize the program will ever work

 

[stuartwaring]

I do humbly ask that Rob let the community, that is still passionate about this product, help him monetize it. Get the import/export issue fixed, if necessary I'm sure I'm not the only coder that would be willing to take a look gratis. Find a couple of people you trust to look over submissions to verify they aren't copyright violations or otherwise unacceptable. Then put them up for a reasonable, low fee. Villages, inns, small dungeons. the sorts of things that GM's are always in need of and that due to the nature of RW slot in very easily. Take a big cut, the creators know going in what they are doing. Get some buzz going. that is the only way you'll get people to buy the program and build the user base. Without an expanded user base no other plan to monetize the program will ever work

This! I love writing stories etc but map creation etc has always been one step too far for the amount of time I have. I could easily be persuaded to part with $10 for a dungeon, $5 for a village, $15-$20 for a town/city with a couple of districts and maybe the odd warehouse and temple to explore.

Sure they aren't big ticket, but it would be like shopping in KMart: $5 + $5 +$10 +$5 somehow very rapidly adds up to $100 or more!

I remember the reason the buzz around the content market is because by and large this community is cash rich but time poor.

I would love to have maps and towns all mapped out and I just weave my story and characters around them!

 

[rob]

I think the comments about the future of HL were really related to the future of HLC and the ability of any HL product to support user-generated game systems.

Given that @daplunk posted in the Hero Lab Online forums immediately after a post from a user commenting about the delays with Shadowrun content support in HLO, I interpreted the reference differently. Regardless of what was intended, I'm gonna guess that I wasn't the only person who interpreted it that way, so clarifying that subject was necessary. <shrug>

 

[rob]

You guys are absolutely right. Realm Works is 64-bit. One of the unpleasant hallmarks of the meds I was on is an almost complete inability to remember anything from January 2017 to early 2019. So I had no recollection of the 64-bit update in 2018 and was too exhausted to think to check that detail.

You can therefore strike the bit about integrating 64-bit Hero Lab being "further complicated by the fact that Realm Works itself is only a 32-bit application". Unfortunately, that doesn't change the rest of that section and the fact that there remains no existing way to integrate both 32-bit and 64-bit versions of the same external application into Realm Works. That's something we never considered in the design, so it's still a non-trivial chunk of work to add that.

 

[rob]

Can we recommend the forums are cleaned up and stickies made to bring attention to the current state of Realm Works and the known work-around for this issue documented and pinned?

I'll see what can be done about that...

Honestly I would think the Content Market should also be updated with some information as to the known limitations.

Regarding HLClassic integration, all that's needed is to launch it via Realm Works or the icon/shortcut for the 32-bit version. The HLC installer automatically installs both versions.

Where would you suggest we post this to make it clear? You appear to have clear knowledge of the complaints being lodged in these other circles, so you probably have some recommendations.

In regards to the import bugs. 255 was never formally released and I would call your attention to the forums where multiple users reported issues with 255. People were uninstalling it and reverting back to 253 in order to maintain the ability to import/export. I never tested it myself in fear of loosing... well part of my soul.

The only quote I see about 255 not working in that thread is this: "255 is broken anyway, so that would't be useful at all." When I read that, I assumed it was due to the certificate error, since it lacked any further useful information.

According to the developer I spoke with over the weekend, the only problem we're aware of is what we fixed in build 255. If there is anything else wrong, it's not on the radar of that developer (nor myself, since I've been getting my information from him about those details). So we're absolutely gonna need more details and concrete examples to replicate any additional problems.

Also, all of the material we've published imports smoothly for us in build 254 and build 255. From what I understand, the bug we fixed in build 255 was limited to user-exported material in build 254.

 

[rob]

@Rob, i understand the path you took for RW, but i still dont like it - its a genuine loss to most of the RW users out there...
Would you be so kind as to clarify something for me - sidelined, here in the UK businesses, means put aside. It does not mean 'retired', for want of a better word. Is RW permanently 'retired / sidelined / benched' ? or is there the smallest chance that in the future it may start being developed sometime, even if part-time ?
regards.

As I said in my post, I'd love to return to Realm Works. However, that is contingent upon coming up with a different business model for it so that it's financially viable.

If that occurs, it's quite likely that Realm Works would take a very different form. The underlying data model is quite robust and solid, so I would imagine that remains largely unchanged. That would mean users with the existing product would hopefully be able to migrate to the new form. What's also likely, though, is that this theoretical "new form" probably won't have all the fine-grain feature control of the current product (absolutely not initially), so that could present a migration problem for users who want continue using "Feature X" from the desktop application that doesn't in this new form.

But that's all complete conjecture based on wishful thinking. At the present time, I have not come up with an alternate, viable financial model for Realm Works, so it's nothing more than a theoretical exercise.

 

[Parody]

The only quote I see about 255 not working in that thread is this: "255 is broken anyway, so that would't be useful at all." When I read that, I assumed it was due to the certificate error, since it lacked any further useful information.

Try this thread on import crashes in 255, which was linked in the other linked thread.

The reports are that in 255 the first import works but importing from the same realm again (bringing in changes) makes RW crash.

I haven't tried it myself. I have 254 installed and no server access; I was going to go back to 253 the next time I wanted to mess with RW again.

 

[rob]

As for 255, it was released about 10 months ago, and introduced a different import bug. Daplunk provided a link to the forum post about it.

I saw that link. All I saw about the new bug was "it's broken".

Wait a minute. @daplunk's link takes me to "page 2" of the thread. Which starts with post 21 for me. If I go back to the previous page, I now see more details that I previously missed. So I'm guessing @daplunk has 10 posts per page, while I'm configured for 20. <grr>

Can you provide me with the support ticket number(s) that you opened?

Please note that we are focused on getting some major stuff out for HLO right now. So we're not gonna be taking a deep dive into any code until the dust settles on all of that. I'd like to get the information from you so that I can queue it up for the developer, but it's gonna still be a bit before anyone can actively investigate this further problem you've identified.

 

[nightpanda2810]

Can you provide me with the support ticket number(s) that you opened?

Here's my ticket: 252158 opened Jan 10 of this year.

I'm happy to help troubleshoot in any way I can. I've got the capability to run virtual machines with different versions of the software. I'll even schedule a working session if that's helpful.

I'm not using any content market stuff (anymore). Don't recall if I was during all these issues, as I stopped any use of them before PF2 was even released. The PF1 Bestiary made my realms REALLY slow, even on beefy hardware.

Here's a couple threads in addition to the other 2 mentioned so far.
http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=63831
http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=63951
http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=63735

Why don't we set up a separate thread and have us help you brainstorm making RW profitable?

 

[weogarth]

Why don't we set up a separate thread and have us help you brainstorm making RW profitable?

I hope this happens. Currently, I got nothing on this, but I'm often better at working off of/adding to ideas than coming up with them from scratch.

I'd love to see RW be a focus for LWD again.

Also, as this is my first post on this thread, just want to say that I'm glad you're generally whole again Rob (although that two year blank memory thing is scary as ****) but has it really been 3.5 years?

Lastly, I'd like to say that if anything happens, can an export to text, HTML, or XML be considered? While it may be a stretch, it's not out of the question that other platforms catch up and it'd be nice to have the option to more easily migrate somewhere else.

Regards,

Gary

 

[evildmguy]

rob: I'm sorry your health took such a hit. I am happy to hear you are doing better. I hope that continues.

I also hope the best for you and your company, whatever form it is.

Thanks!

 

[Maidhc O Casain]

I just wanted to chime in and say thanks, Rob, for coming back over here to the RW forums! This, more than anything, should serve as reassurance to people that while it's not under active development RealmWorks hasn't been abandoned.

I love the program, still, and am using it actively for a world building project. I also use it to keep up with campaigns in which I play. I play exclusively in Play by Post forums these days and keeping up with plot twists, NPCs and developments gets cumbersome when it's stretched across the weeks and months that PbP takes. I just start a new Realm for the game, then enter stuff as we discover it.

Very happy to hear that the integration works with HL so long as you stick with 32 bit - this makes it much more likely that I'll actually purchase the Bestiaries that I haven't gotten to yet.

I hope you guys manage to find the time soon to figure out all of the import/export bugs and get them squashed for good and all! I don't use that feature much right now, but my future plans definitely include using it so I'd love to have it working reliably.

 

[daplunk]

Very happy to hear that the integration works with HL so long as you stick with 32 bit - this makes it much more likely that I'll actually purchase the Bestiaries that I haven't gotten to yet.

This is what I would adress on the content market Rob. The community were not aware of the workaround and as such believe the feature is broken. People who woukd have bought content are avoiding it as a result.

 

[medwards89]

+1 This

 

[Farling]

Lastly, I'd like to say that if anything happens, can an export to text, HTML, or XML be considered? While it may be a stretch, it's not out of the question that other platforms catch up and it'd be nice to have the option to more easily migrate somewhere else.

RW already provides two forms of XML output: one for allowing import to another running version of RW, and a second for general use by other tools (such as mine that generates HTML pages).

 

[lancealittle]

any chance of a vid ?

RW already provides two forms of XML output: one for allowing import to another running version of RW, and a second for general use by other tools (such as mine that generates HTML pages).

Farling - iv not yet had to do this, but will need to sooner or later. I dont suppose you could make a short vid and post to youtube covering this subject ? an example to work from is much easier than stabbing in the dark...

Regards, Lancealittle