Realm Works "Cloud" software

[athelu]

Hello All,

I watched and waited for Realm Works, eagerly waiting to get the tool in my hands for campaign management. I was really looking forward to the ability to have a central locations for all of my campaign resources and the ability to disseminate information with my players. I have put a ton of work into realm works with getting my source material in there, and creating NPCs, Extras, locations, maps etc. There are still some tools that i have not played with, but imagine i will get there. A few items really sold me on the software:

Map reveal (awesome. works very well)
Map Pins/tagging (nice idea - needs follow through)
Indexing (hit or miss for me)
Non-Gregorian Calendars (nixed from release )
Cloud access/collaboration (no collaboration)

In all honesty, the discussion of Non-gregorian calendar support is what made me click the BUY button. So, it really stung when it was not part of the release. Cloud support was also huge for me, and this is where i feel really let down by the software.

Let me put this in some perspective; I work for a SaaS company and am intimately familiar with what is possible in the cloud. Realm Works achieves Cloud status by the barest measure possible. I believe that cloud=collaboration in a software users mind. This means that data sharing goes both ways and information is updated in real time.

I convinced all of my players to purchase the player edition, believing that what we would be getting was a collaboration tool for use during our sessions. I provided everyone access to the realm and had them all get setup and synced; boy were we disappointed. None of what we envisioned was actually possible with the tools. Here is what we expected:

Messaging to users (no more passing paper) - well, there is a message system in realm works, but it is not usable for anything other than offline messaging someone or setting up realm access.

Map/Resource reveals - we expected the client to receive the reveals of information as I made the changes during the session. Nope. The DM has to close and sync the realm, and so do the players to receive the updates. this means there is really NO POINT in the users having the software available to them during a session. This truly blew my mind...

That was really it. truly. There are lots of things that i WISH the software could do, but the inability to do both of these was shocking. If you cannot share information both ways, and update in real-time, you are not providing an actual cloud solution. At best the cloud solution is a cloud backup. Perhaps the web client will get us closer, but i am not holding my breath at this point.

This is me venting some frustration at this point. I still continue to use the software and it has excellent in-session value for me as a DM. I guess i was just expecting more.

 

[Farling]

It reads like you mistook Realm Works for a VTT.

A VTT provides the messaging and instant reveal to players during game sessions.

Players can use the information revealed during previous game sessions: either at the start of the game session, or during a game session to look back and find out some information that they discovered several sessions ago but can't remember.

"Cloud" is a such a current buzzword that is is many things to many people. Dropbox allows file to be stored in the cloud, but they don't allow multiple people to be editting the file at the same time.

 

[MNBlockHead]

I don't think you have to mistake it for a VTT to expect concurrent updates. I'm a huge fan of RW, but even I have to admit that the mechanism to update things for players is clunky. Okay, yeah, having to click a synchronizing button is not such a big deal, but having to LEAVE YOUR REALM to do so, is annoying, even when not in a live session. I know there are important reasons why it is this way. But wishing for a different synch experience doesn't mean you expect a VTT.

For me, I really don't care. I don't want to be revealing snippets and having players sitting their reading over my realm content during the game. I update all reveals between games. As for the map, I just use the player view. I just connect a second screen and for remote players, I share that second screen using Google Hangouts.

That said there are DMs who need/prefer a way to share the player view without needing to lug around and setup a second monitor. They would rather provide the players with a tablet or have players use their own tablets to view the player view. That is not asking for a VTT, but simply asking for a non-wired way of displaying player view.

May are hoping that the Web view will help with this. But, if you still have to leave your realm to sync, then I don't see how it changes anything other than allowing people to access static historic information on their campaign from other non-windows devices.

I'm not hating on RW here, nor complaining. I really have no need for what athelu is asking for. But it is clear to me that he isn't asking for a VTT.

 

[Dark Lord Galen]

Dropbox allows file to be stored in the cloud, but they don't allow multiple people to be editting the file at the same time.

Not entirely accurate, there are some files that can, infact be used collaboratively via drop box on a "Pro level" saving multiple copies of the same file for owner review and approve of the finalized merged copy (excel or word for example) see https://www.dropbox.com/help/19#conflicting & https://support.office.com/en-us/article/Overview-of-sharing-and-collaborating-on-Excel-data-3c4fb64f-bf46-42a4-9f6a-73cc6367d378?CorrelationId=71f531f5-b88e-47df-a1c0-38bdc92aed4a&ui=en-US&rs=en-US&ad=US#__toc261279698

I don't see how it changes anything other than allowing people to access static historic information on their campaign from other non-windows devices. [/U]
I'm not hating on RW here, nor complaining. I really have no need for what athelu is asking for. But it is clear to me that he isn't asking for a VTT.

WELL Put.....

 

[adzling]

I agree with the OP.
I expected realmworks cloudsync would basically work as the OP states above.
I was very disappointed to discover that my players could not access realmworks for things like info reveals and map reveals in real-time.

This feature (along with different info reveals for different players) would make Realmworks so much more powerful and helpful.

As it is the content I enter is just locked up in realmworks with no reasonable way to get it into the players hands in real time (no printing either, I mean COME ON).

This is prolly the software's biggest fail imho, even beyond the poor interface.

I just hope they realize this and focus on getting content into player's hands sooner rather than later.

 

[Maidhc O Casain]

I've never used a virtual tabletop, so I may be missing something here and I ask this in all sincerity.

I've always thought the hallmarks of a VTT were real time updates to player conditions and map reveals. So how would what adzling and athulu are wishing for be different from a VTT? Especially in regards to the map updates?

- If this seems like it will lead to a thread hijack, I'm happy to start a different thread or to have responses via PM... Just think I may need a little education.

 

[EightBitz]

I've never used a virtual tabletop, so I may be missing something here and I ask this in all sincerity.

I've always thought the hallmarks of a VTT were real time updates to player conditions and map reveals. So how would what adzling and athulu are wishing for be different from a VTT? Especially in regards to the map updates?

- If this seems like it will lead to a thread hijack, I'm happy to start a different thread or to have responses via PM... Just think I may need a little education.

VTTs usually include a grid-level map with each player in one grid unit (hex or square). The enemies are each in their own grid units. And thus you have a battle map with a live representation of where each player is, where each opponent is, where each pet, ally, etc is ... just like if you had a battle mat on a table top ... except it's virtual ...

 

[enrious]

I don't think you have to mistake it for a VTT to expect concurrent updates. I'm a huge fan of RW, but even I have to admit that the mechanism to update things for players is clunky. Okay, yeah, having to click a synchronizing button is not such a big deal, but having to LEAVE YOUR REALM to do so, is annoying, even when not in a live session. I know there are important reasons why it is this way. But wishing for a different synch experience doesn't mean you expect a VTT.

This sums it up for me. I'd rather use one program to reveal without jumping out of the Realm, and I understand the why nots, but that doesn't stop the longing.

 

[athelu]

I am glad that for the most part everyone understands the hang up I have and that this has not devolved into a hate fest

Now, because I work for a cool software company, having multiple monitors is a non issue for playing. I have player view running on 2 different 52" TVs mounted at each end of our conference room so anyone at the table can see what is going on. I have really embraced what RealmWorks CAN do, I am just lamenting what I thought it COULD.

As far as the VTT discussion goes? I see VTT as a way to support combat with reveals. We do combat via miniatures on the actual table. I use RealmWorks for Map reveals, content reveals and campaign/story metadata. Player view is really good provided you have the resources to support it.

Being able to reveal unique information to individual players (in session) as well as send messages seem very much like game session management and maybe that is where the distinction between RealmWorks and a VTT breaks down.

 

[adzling]

you should try lying one of those tvs on it's back on the conference room table and throw your miniatures down on it ;-)

this is one of the uses we have for Realmworks, as a bare-bones VTT.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gh1idrsqvdfbc4b/desktop1.jpg?dl=0

 

[Maidhc O Casain]

VTTs usually include a grid-level map with each player in one grid unit (hex or square). The enemies are each in their own grid units. And thus you have a battle map with a live representation of where each player is, where each opponent is, where each pet, ally, etc is ... just like if you had a battle mat on a table top ... except it's virtual ...

Ah - so the difference is one of "scale." VTTs are primarily for management of combat, while what's being asked for here is kind of a "super-VTT" for management of the entire game session? Macro focus, rather than micro.

 

[athelu]

Ah - so the difference is one of "scale." VTTs are primarily for management of combat, while what's being asked for here is kind of a "super-VTT" for management of the entire game session? Macro focus, rather than micro.

Yes, i think that is a fairly accurate way to describe it. I would like to make it as usable for the players during a session as it is for me. Right now, only one of my guys uses RealmWorks at all after the initial purchase. He uses it to look up information during the session that may be relevent. this helps keep me from having to remind them of things, or re-hash things, or explain things again in some instances. I would like wider player adoption, and by having RealmWorks be a more collaborative environment I could see it happening.

We actively collaborate with google docs some during our sessions right now - for example - loot list management. I see no reason why this kind of stuff could not be stored in realmworks though, it could even be more powerful if I could link it to SRD content or custom magic items that i already have in there.

Player notes I think would be helpful - essentially letting them create their own markup for areas, or people or whatever. These are of course things outside of what i said in my original post, but are all things that i think a collaborative version of realmworks would do.

 

[MNBlockHead]

Well Player Journal is the next feature on the Road Map after Content Market and Web access. Player journals beat out calendars and printing. :-/

 

[ShadowChemosh]

Well Player Journal is the next feature on the Road Map after Content Market and Web access. Player journals beat out calendars and printing. :-/

Makes me so happy! CM with Paizo AP's will be so sweet! Web Access so my players can get to the game world info easily on iPads is very nice! Then the ability to take player notes is just more chocolate frosting on a chocolate cake. 2016 is going to be a GREAT year for RW!

I love it when a plan comes together!

 

[Silveras]

I love it when a plan comes together!

He's on the jazz again.