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Player view for maps?

N

NeoEvaX

Well-known member
I am thinking of building a projector set up for my gaming table. I am looking for the best way to display maps.

Anyone use the player view as a projected map? Any difficulty sizing it correctly? I love the idea of the "fog of war" feature being used in a map. I just know its not directly made for play maps.

Thoughts?
 
Disclaimer: I have not built such a system myself. People who have used the Player View have discussed scaling issues and some challenges working with the various other windows that might be in the Player View space.

However, if all that you want is fog of war and a projected map, I would suggest something like Roll20.net.. it is a free, web-based VTT. RealmWorks is not trying to compete in the VTT features space, except as the features overlap with campaign management. Fog of War is pretty basic to VTTs these days; most of the more advanced ones are working on Line-of-Sight and Dynamic Lighting support as more cutting-edge features.
 
I might just have to go that route. Make the Player View in RW visible when I need it to be to show something.

I will have to test it out and see how I like it. Having actual Line-of-Sight might be cool. I am giving myself like 6 months to really prepare for this adventure. So I might as well make it as bad ass as I can :)
 
NeoEvaX said:
I might just have to go that route. Make the Player View in RW visible when I need it to be to show something.

I will have to test it out and see how I like it. Having actual Line-of-Sight might be cool. I am giving myself like 6 months to really prepare for this adventure. So I might as well make it as bad ass as I can :)
Click to expand...

The free level of Roll20 supports Fog-of-War. If you choose to go the subscriber route, they have some interesting advanced features, including Dynamic Lighting and Line-of-Sight.

I particularly like the Dynamic Lighting and support for ranges of vision.. you can specify on a token whether it emits light, how far, and when it begins to dim (so, for D&D 3.5 / Pathfinder, a torch would be a radius of 40 feet, dimming after 20 feet); you can also specify on tokens whether they have vision, and specify what angle (360 is the default). There is a specific layer for light-blocking markup on the map, which can also block movement.

Each player can "see" only what the token(s) (s)he has control over have line-of-sight to, and which are illuminated in a way that character can see.

The down side is that the map can become confusing for players, if there are many pillars, for example. You can add light-blocking effects to them.. but you may find yourself removing those when the fighting gets going.
 
I would want to stick to using physical characters at the table. So, controlling general fog might be the easiest for me to handle. Projecting down and letting the players move their figures around.

Going to need to test out multiple options, come up with one I like, that is not TOO hard to maintain.

Dynamic lighting could be super fun, when I have time to do it. I tend to be horrible at tracking character's vision type. But Dynamic lighting might just add to the look of the board.
 
I use a projector currently. I suggest you stop and do some serious thought and calculation about what you want to achieve. Getting a projector to display onto the table is not as easy as it sounds. You need to understand the throw range of the projector. How you plan on mounting it. How you will get the image to the table. After all this will the picture be squared or out of whack due to the angle. Will you play in the day. And what. Impact that will have on visibility.

Im current try considering swapping to a TV laid on its back.

I also don't recommend RW for the VTT. It takes too long to update for of war. I personally use MapTools. It's free, easy to use and doesn't require a live internet connection. It supports full screen mode and you can run 1 copy as server and the other as a client allowing you to control from your Dm screen.
 
From your description, Realm Works might just be all that you need. VTTs are useful when you get into combats and want to see where everyone is on a "battlemat". That's the assumption other posters have made here, but it's not clear from your original post that you care about that. If not, using Player View with RW's incremental reveal of maps may be exactly what you need.

And the zoom feature we just added in Player View should eliminate any issues with zooming that some users have reported with different types of equipment.

I recommend experimenting with Realm Works first to see if it serves your purposes. If so, then you don't have to deal with the additional setup time for putting stuff into both RW and a VTT.
 
I use d20pro for maps, handouts and combat tracking at the table. I run one instance for GM and a second for players on my laptop. I have a second monitor attached and that's where the player view of the game resides. Super fast and easy. It's not free but it's pretty dang cheap and very actively being updated. I've thought about hooking up a touchscreen for the player view.

Players can roll their own dice at the table or they often ask me to roll via the VTT to move things along so we can get back to roleplaying rather than rollplaying.

I sometimes have remote players who have the advantage of being able to move their character around, roll virtual dice, etc. In these cases, we use TeamSpeak2 for voice talk and they sometimes send me private messages for secret actions.

I use RW for GM prep and tracking only. It just isn't ready for player use for my desires.
 
My current plan is to set up a mobile projector system similar to: http://www.gamergroup.com/page.roleplaying-game-articles.b.2827.r.1.html

That way it can move around with me. I do need to go find a decent short throw projector, though.

I am hoping that RW might do the trick. All I need is to be able to project a (correctly scaled) map with some fog of war. Which RW does. I still plan on using my figures. My players have already started modeling/ordering/painting their figures. Plus I have every single Rise of the Runelord's miniature.

I am hoping that the zoom and move around of the player view in RW is not too hard to get the right 1 inch by 1 inch squares. I mean as long as the figures stand in them, it doesn't need to be perfect. (aside. Maybe I can come up with a good calibration tool to get the right zoom for each map)....

If realm works doesn't work out, I might go with roll20 or d20pro for the maps. It would be nice to be all in one environment. And since I am not doing any online game play, it doesn't need to be too fancy.

Plus, when the content market comes out, all the maps will already be in RW, which will be nice. I guess overall I was curious if anyone has done something similar.

I will keep an eye out for roll20 or d20pro as alternatives if I can't quite get it to do what I want.
 
daplunk said:
I use a projector currently. I suggest you stop and do some serious thought and calculation about what you want to achieve. Getting a projector to display onto the table is not as easy as it sounds. You need to understand the throw range of the projector. How you plan on mounting it. How you will get the image to the table. After all this will the picture be squared or out of whack due to the angle. Will you play in the day. And what. Impact that will have on visibility.

Im current try considering swapping to a TV laid on its back.

I also don't recommend RW for the VTT. It takes too long to update for of war. I personally use MapTools. It's free, easy to use and doesn't require a live internet connection. It supports full screen mode and you can run 1 copy as server and the other as a client allowing you to control from your Dm screen.
Click to expand...

Totally understandable. I am hoping the projector box, will alleviate a lot of the worry. Finding a decent short throw projector will be the hardest (also most expensive) part. Enough lumens shouldn't be too hard to see during the day. Plus we live in Washington with trees everywhere, so even when its bright, there is always shade coming in through the windows.

I thought about doing the TV thing too. Not sure why, but that freaks me out a bit haha
 
In response to Rob's comment. And understand it's his product so he's biased ;) But the reasoning I would not recommend RW for controlling the map is the delayed time it takes to get the map to update.

Using alot of tools above you simply drag a box out and it makes that area of the map visible. It's simple and instant.

Using RW you have to have the picture in edit mode, drag the box out, and then save the changes (there is usually a few second delays with the saving). I found this to be int eruptive to the flow of the game.

I also use miniatures at the table and roll real dice. The map is simply for the map and fog control only.

I still use the player screen. Its connected to the 3rd monitor which is player facing allowing me to display NPCs, Monsters, Handouts, etc.

If RW provided real-time updating of the maps and support for a 3rd monitor then I would happily move back to RW. Using multiple tools sucks.
 
In my mind, the purpose of using a projector is to get a bigger playing space than a tv will offer. I've managed to achieve that with my setup but the key correction is off and the image projects from the side causing shadows behind the minis.

If I can get my hands of a large tv I think I will go all out and build a table around it. I'll aim to put a layer of perplex down over the tv so that it doesn't get damaged when we switch back to using real terrain.

I believe the tv will have a number of advantages. No shadows, better use in lighter conditions. There are concerns though, tvs are designed to stand upright, heat rises and will rise between the tv and the perplex.

Ultimately it will come down to cost. Short-throw projectors are super expensive. Replacement globes are expensive. I think I can do it cheaper and better with a tv.
 
The other thing I forgot to mention when talking about Roll20 is that, to get the controlled visibility of the character to function, each player would need to be logged in on a separate web browser.. so Roll20 would show only what that character sees. Using a single browser with the GM logged in would (probably) show the net vision of all of the characters at once, including the monsters.

So, for a single-user view on a large TV or projection, keeping it simple is best, as the view will be the GM's view.
 
I use a projector in my game. It is not that difficult to set up if you are at all mechanically inclined. Scaling the image is no big deal, there is a slider on the player view tab. slide it until 1 square is about 1 inch and you are done. then reveal what area the party just entered and save that file, then the projector will update. There is a "flash" of white as the projector updates that can be annoying, I hope this is fixed in latter updates.

as to how to do this..... I highly recommend getting a short throw projector. It is possible to use a standard throw projector with a mirror, but installation becomes much more cumbersome. First select your projector mount. spend a little more here to get a more stable mount that has some adjustments. Most mounts that can be mounted horizontally off a wall can be mounted vertically off the ceiling. Pay attention to the distance from the wall/ceiling the mount will be, leaving enough room for cords. once you have this figured out you can figure out the distance from the projector lens to the table top. In most cases this will be a fixed distance based on the room you are using and ceiling height.

Once you have this figure you can go shopping for a projector. Make sure that the minimum throw distance is that figure or less. If you have any further questions PM me and I can send some pictures.
 
I use my TV in the family room for the VTT. It is connected to a laptop run by the players. Btw, I use D20pro and love it. I host the game on my laptop and the players connect to me over wifi. The new fog of war and line of sight in D20pro are progressing very well. The reactions of my players when a door is opened and a big ogre is standing right there is awesome.
 
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