One Hero Lab for the group

[The Senator]

Hero Lab is amazing and I recommend everyone get it. Personally, I've invested in the product and the core books and will continue because, as hobbies go, this one's cheap. No seriously - Do you know much it costs to play golf for a year? Consider how many hours of enjoyment will you get from Pathfinder this year... Books, PDFs, HL packages, minis, store fees... this is a bargain hobby.

But there's always going to be gamers at your table who don't want to invest in their own books. Maybe their cheap, maybe they don't have disposable cash - I'm not making judgements but when I see a player (usually a kid) at the game store toddle over to the shelves to consult a book he doesn't own, I cringe just a bit because I know it's Magic (the TCG, not actual magic) keeping the place open.

Difference in this case is that there's d20pfsrd.com and PCgen available online - All the Pathfinder resources and a reasonable character creator for free - Lone Wolf makes a great product but your not forced into buying it. I use HL to track my players and to validate their character sheets. I even print their sheets out every now and again and I send them their character file so they can stick it on their iPad - which I believe is free.

One of my favorite parts of Pathfinder is the support from 3rd parties like LW. There are many reasons I just don't see myself buying 5th edition but lack of a character builder and online support are the two I'll cite first.

 

[RavenX]

Where I live, I can play 18 holes at the municipal golf course for $11, which isn't all that much, even just playing once a month during the warmer months. I get far more use out of hero lab than my golf clubs, and a lot less time cleaning the computer off. I honestly keep the computer near the game table so I can run the game with hero lab's tactical console. This feature makes it easy for me to run games I pretty much run the game through hero lab each week.

The comic shops out here that I frequent don't allow people to peruse the books on the shelf unless they intend to purchase. The owner found a few too many missing books on the shelf and decided to move all the books closer to the cash register where he could keep an eye on them. He figured it was the MTG crowd stealing them but couldn't prove it and didn't have cameras back then. He's added cameras as well, but there was a time that too many books were just disappearing off his shelves.

5th edition I'm reserving judgment upon until I get my hands on the core rulebooks. I wasn't happy with the playtest packets but the WotC blogs have alluded to a large number of changes to the system after the final playtest was released. I will see what the books have in them before I decide whether to run it or not.

 

[Globetrotter]

Well... the app for hero lab on the ipad is free.

You can have them all create characters using your computer, and then have their own ipads running their characters sheet. All of my players have hero lab accounts, but when I have a player that doesn't, we just hand him an ipad (or he brings his own - I have 3 ipads) and we load his character on it.

It works for us.

 

[Mathizsias]

If you're legitimately purchasing a Windows Server, and the CALS for it... Hero Lab is a bargain in comparison.

Not when you have 200 dollars invested in the modules, etc. Azure isn't that expensive when spread around in a group, that same server could also be used for purposes of MapTool, etc..

 

[Fuzzy]

Just to point out, you don't need Windows Server to do this. Windows Professional and Enterprise both include Remote Desktop Services, and you can log on to them with multiple users at a time. Just set up a windows user for each player in the group, and they can all connect simultaneously, and each run Hero Lab within their session. As long as they aren't trying to manipulate the same portfolio, it works great.

I did go the extra step of using policy to set the shell of these windows accounts to the Hero Lab exe, so that when they log on, it runs hero lab directly, and only. Closing hero lab logs the user out. Very streamlined.

 

[Exmortis]

Fair point.

I think it depends on your group. Most of my friends are averse to having electronics at all at the table, and spending money on software they could spend on books is against their religion.

There was a time my group was like that too. And for good reason, when it was just one or two of us with devices, it tended to be used far more as a distraction then a benefit to the game. However now we all have lappys or tablets at the gaming table, when I GM I have both tablet and lappy as well as use an external 24' screen for players.

It has enhanced our play, removed a ton of errors, HL is many times faster, better and far fewer errors then old school paper, and when buffs are handed out 3 or 4 casters deep? HL takes care of it all, stacking, overlap, no more discussins rule look ups, correcting of others mistakes. Nope you enable it in HL and done.

To your players who buy books, HL is cheaper than books, in fact, you can buy the entire Pathfinder books set, hard cover and softcover for little less than half the cost of hard books, you may want to bring this to their attention. Assuming most have laptops anyway and do not have to buy them, its more efficient and cheaper to buy HL and data packages than books.

And the real winner? Your back and shoulders, I walk in to the gaming table with a tablet, a pen, few sheets of paper, a mouse and my dice. Not a duffle bag of books and a backpack of binders. As GM I walk in with a backpack with Lappy, tablet and paper, dice, still light in comparison.

I bought HL over time, one pack every pay check, made it much easier on the pocket book, and have not bought any books outside the bestiary since (as GM I love reading books for monsters when creating adventures).

Remember, your paying Paizo for the material, the IP and LWD for the cost of making it electronic, for less then the cost of a hardcover book. In fact I buy PDF version of every book, the HL version and together its about the same as the hard book in hand. If you actually stop to consider it, its not a bad deal.

 

[Fuzzy]

There was a time my group was like that too. And for good reason, when it was just one or two of us with devices, it tended to be used far more as a distraction then a benefit to the game. However now we all have lappys or tablets at the gaming table, when I GM I have both tablet and lappy as well as use an external 24' screen for players.

It has enhanced our play, removed a ton of errors, HL is many times faster, better and far fewer errors then old school paper, and when buffs are handed out 3 or 4 casters deep? HL takes care of it all, stacking, overlap, no more discussins rule look ups, correcting of others mistakes. Nope you enable it in HL and done.

To your players who buy books, HL is cheaper than books, in fact, you can buy the entire Pathfinder books set, hard cover and softcover for little less than half the cost of hard books, you may want to bring this to their attention. Assuming most have laptops anyway and do not have to buy them, its more efficient and cheaper to buy HL and data packages than books.

And the real winner? Your back and shoulders, I walk in to the gaming table with a tablet, a pen, few sheets of paper, a mouse and my dice. Not a duffle bag of books and a backpack of binders. As GM I walk in with a backpack with Lappy, tablet and paper, dice, still light in comparison.

I bought HL over time, one pack every pay check, made it much easier on the pocket book, and have not bought any books outside the bestiary since (as GM I love reading books for monsters when creating adventures).

Remember, your paying Paizo for the material, the IP and LWD for the cost of making it electronic, for less then the cost of a hardcover book. In fact I buy PDF version of every book, the HL version and together its about the same as the hard book in hand. If you actually stop to consider it, its not a bad deal.

Only negative to this route is if you play PFS (I don't), hero lab purchases do not count to allow you to use the content from that source. You have to have personally purchased the source material from paizo, and bring that source material with you to the table, for any item/ability/etc you are using on your pfs character.

 

[Exmortis]

Only negative to this route is if you play PFS (I don't), hero lab purchases do not count to allow you to use the content from that source. You have to have personally purchased the source material from paizo, and bring that source material with you to the table, for any item/ability/etc you are using on your pfs character.

PFS = Pathfinder Society?

If that is the case, they will never see me at their gaming table, their loss not mine.

 

[ShadowChemosh]

PFS = Pathfinder Society?

If that is the case, they will never see me at their gaming table, their loss not mine.

The PDF still counts. And the cost of the Paizo PDF and the HL Package still comes out cheaper than the dead tree!

It has enhanced our play, removed a ton of errors, HL is many times faster, better and far fewer errors then old school paper, and when buffs are handed out 3 or 4 casters deep? HL takes care of it all, stacking, overlap, no more discussions rule look ups, correcting of others mistakes. Nope you enable it in HL and done.

Just wanted to say totally agree. Add in dispel magic and keeping track of the buffs that are getting removed. Totally has speed up my higher level game play.

 

[mirtos]

The PDF still counts. And the cost of the Paizo PDF and the HL Package still comes out cheaper than the dead tree!

True, but what am I supposed to read in the bathroom?

Oops, TMI?

 

[mirtos]

But all kidding aside, it helps so much for buffs. And even so, you dont need one per person, you can just have the DM keep track, but it does speed up the level if people know what is what.


But if not everyone has it (not everyone at my group has it), just have the DM do it, and let them keep track of the hits or misses. Little slower, but still better.

 

[Fuzzy]

That's why I have it set up on my PC at home, and multiple remotes into it. Everyone I know has an android or iOS device that can connect to a windows RDP session.

 

[mirtos]

But back to the original poster, by doing that, you would need a different license for each person. Because even though its one computer (a server, whether its windows server, or just a copy of windows that allows multiple RDP), its clearly multiple people doing different things at once.

At least thats my take on Rob's and Liz's responses.

 

[Jamz]

I doubt it. There is nothing against the licence on running 2 copies on the same PC at the same time. Your friend could use a second mouse and control the second copy on the same monitor the same as a GM using two copies at once. Or for that matter, 6 monitors, 6 mice. 6 Remote Desktops. All the same thing.

License is tied to the Device.

Now, with that said. I would only suggest it as a "selling point" given your players may decide to purchase their own copies later.

It is worth it, and they will migrate over time. Once a few players can <click click click> "Ok I do..." <click click click> "...and save is a 27", other players will get jealous at the time savings. Our last hold out was constantly "bah, I can make a character in seconds with a book, I don't need it" but the other players were constantly pulling out better feats, not missing bonus +'s from abilities, were NOT forgetting about their cool abilities, that he finally saw the wisdom in it. He was like, "where are you getting that +2?" and we're like "I dunno, HL does it for me...fine...<hover> +2 bonus is from...."

Besides, you CAN share the dead trees, so, everyone buy HL + Addon + PDF for themselves, then chip in and buy 1 copy of the dead tree for the game room. Problem solved?

 

[mirtos]

License is tied to the device, but I'm fairly sure that Rob somewhere stated that its meant for one user.

Otherwise, you could easily set up a server, buy all the data packages, and start going past the license policy. In fact there are pretty cheap amazon cloud servers out there (I use one to deal with firewall issues when i want to do some of my things that my work firewall blocks).

EDIT: On the first page of this thread, this is confirmed by Liz.

 

[Fuzzy]

I understand that may be the intent of the licensing, but that is not currently the case in the license agreement. It is tied to the device, and use on that device in multiple instances is not restricted in the license. I'm not sure my method is very likely to be used by many, as according to Rob, where most people play, there is no internet available, but it works well for my use.

 

[Fuzzy]

Admittedly, the only reason i installed it on my server was to allow me to use Hero Lab on my android phone/tablet, as no-one in my group owns any apple products. Once I realized how well it works, though, I set up the multiple accounts and some others tried it and liked it. I now don't even run it on my primary desktop (which still holds my primary license), and choose to instead remote into my server's hero lab account to use. This way I only have to keep one installation updated. My .user files are all maintained on that installation. I am able to work on characters easily from work on a break, able to work on .user files, and able to check things for helping others on the forum, no matter where I am. I can be half-way done with a certain activity started at work, disconnect, reconnect later at lunch from my tablet, to the same session, and continue, then when I get home, reconnect to the server (which is headless) from my desktop, and the session is exactly how it was left.

 

[Exmortis]

Admittedly, the only reason i installed it on my server was to allow me to use Hero Lab on my android phone/tablet, as no-one in my group owns any apple products. Once I realized how well it works, though, I set up the multiple accounts and some others tried it and liked it. I now don't even run it on my primary desktop (which still holds my primary license), and choose to instead remote into my server's hero lab account to use. This way I only have to keep one installation updated. My .user files are all maintained on that installation. I am able to work on characters easily from work on a break, able to work on .user files, and able to check things for helping others on the forum, no matter where I am. I can be half-way done with a certain activity started at work, disconnect, reconnect later at lunch from my tablet, to the same session, and continue, then when I get home, reconnect to the server (which is headless) from my desktop, and the session is exactly how it was left.

I use my OneDrive this way, all of my work is done this way, I have my OneDrive offline sync'd to my primary desktop, my Power lappy, my media PC and my Surface 3 Pro. So no matter where, when or how, all of my files are available and up to date. this includes all of my Paizo PDFs as well.

One location to Rule them all!

 

[Fuzzy]

That doesn't keep a session though, which for me is the big advantage..

 

[Exmortis]

That doesn't keep a session though, which for me is the big advantage..

Not really sure how, since it has this little awesome feature called "save", I always continue from exactly where i left off, no matter what system I work from, of course assuming they have Net access, but this is a restriction both share.