• Please note: In an effort to ensure that all of our users feel welcome on our forums, we’ve updated our forum rules. You can review the updated rules here: http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=5528.

    If a fellow Community member is not following the forum rules, please report the post by clicking the Report button (the red yield sign on the left) located on every post. This will notify the moderators directly. If you have any questions about these new rules, please contact support@wolflair.com.

    - The Lone Wolf Development Team

New Feature Testing - Feedback Requested

J

Joe

Moderator
Staff member
Hey all,

We're working on a new feature that we think will be a big help to new users. To turn it on, go to the tools menu for the navigation pane. In the "Organize By" menu, choose "Family". This will change how the topic list is organized.

A quick note. It's not quite ready for prime time, but we wanted your feedback. The term “Family” is up in the air. We don’t like it, but it’ll do for now. If you can think of a better term, please reply! Also, the visual presentation is not yet completed. We’ve got enough in place to make feedback worthwhile, but there’s more to be done. More on that near the end of this post.

The motivation for this is to hide some of the complexity of Realm Works for new users. As it stands, the category list is quite imposing and intimidating to someone who is unfamiliar with our terminology and the operation of the product.

The goal is to provide a path of growth for users, from newbies to experts. We don’t want to “dumb down” any of the features experts are using, but at the same time we don’t want to leave newbies out in the cold. So keep in mind that this feature may not be targeted at you specifically. You are probably already an expert who doesn’t need it. But try if you can to think back to a time when you were just starting out. Or imagine sitting a friend in front of Realm Works for the first time. How might they react?

New users would start with topics organized by family by default. This gives them a simpler, more digestible looking interface to begin with. They don’t really need to understand what a category is just yet, because all the family titles are intuitive and relatable. When creating new topics, a dialog walks them through picking an appropriate category in that family with simple explanations of each. Once they choose, they are in exactly the same position as the expert user with topics organized by category: editing a new topic.

I mentioned earlier in the post that this feature is still evolving, and will see some changes this week before our follow-up release. Please keep them in mind when thinking about feedback. Right now, there’s no visual differentiation between Family headers and Category headers. We want to implement some subtle differences in color and height to make it clearer when switching from one to the other. Other visual elements are up for review as well, such as new icons for further differentiation.

Additionally, the current Organize By menu is somewhat insufficient. We plan to move these options to a dialog with a more thorough explanation of the differences between them, as well as additional options to show both sets of headers (categories grouped under families). This allows a complete beginner, intermediate, expert transition (start with only families, add categories but leave the family “training wheels” on, then finally remove families and be left with the current category view).

Importantly, we are not taking anything away from expert users. Experts will be able to entirely ignore the existence of families if they choose or prefer category-only view, since they can permanently turn this option off.

I think that covers it. Check it out, and let me know what you thing.
 
Interesting idea. But what is the relation between the family and category, and can we adjust this.

For instance. I have a lot of NPC entered and as such have made three categories for them. One for male characters, one for female characters and one for family. the last is just a category to group the other two. (I use the show nested hierarchy setting). If I switch the view all these are listed under other, and not character. (I have done this mainly so I can quickly distinguish between male and female characters)

After some thought the 'family' setting is mainly a way to view things. Which categories you wish to use and whether or not you want to create your own categories is a question you should decide early on in the build of your realm. So when you have begun to use it one way it will be hard to reorganize the realm in a different way. So I wonder if people would switch between the view settings for that.

A second reason not to switch is familiarity with the way things are presented. At a certain point you are accustomed to a certain way information is presented. (I like the category view in nested hierarchy. It shows me the structure I use). I am not sure if I would like to switch the views. This may also be the other way around.

I am also unsure how the view works when the players get the ability to access the data (the player access to realmworks, not the player view). If they choose to see it in 'family', my representation of the data will be skewed and that means I force them to view it in category view. If I can manage how the categories are represented in the 'family' would make this less of a problem.

Also the name family is not the right one, as you concluded yourself. Currently I do not have an alternative
 
As you discovered, you can associate categories with a family of your choice. All custom categories you have already created default to the "other" family, but it's easy to move them via Manage Categories.

In general, our assumption is that users would start out with the simpler "family" organizational view. This provides a more intuitively obvious set of groupings for new users. From there, they would progressively become more familiar with the various categories. Most GMs would then switch to the category view we've had in place for awhile once they get comfortable with them, but it's not required. We don't envision many GMs would go back to the "family" view after becoming very familiar with the category structure.

The primary benefit we see in having the "family" view is for new users. It makes everything much more accessible out-of-the-box, without losing the power and flexibility of categories and full customization. Lumped into the group of "new users" would be players. When GMs start sharing their revealed content with players, they would need to learn about all the different categories with the previous approach, but they really don't need that understanding. Now they can ignore the nuanced differences between categories and just focus on the simpler "families". Most likely, a large percentage of players will remain blissfully ignorant of categories, since all they care about is reviewing the material the GM has revealed to them over the course of many game sessions.

Hope this helps!
 
I just had a short look without data, but I think it may work.

But it may be difficult for (new) users, to decide where to add wich data afterwards. To me not only the amount of categories, but also of sections was difficult at the beginning.

As mentioned in another topic this new seperation of groups makes it more complicated I think. Expecially if you change to category structure, this number of new categories is too long. Most categories distinguish only by some tags-categories. Maybe it would be better to keep the old organization category and add some of this tags-snippets as optional ones.

And - as a not native english speaking person: More categories or pre-definied tags mean more work to translate this in another language :)

More of this later today / tomorrow when I get to my PC at home with my realm ;)

(Btw: Any timing for sync options or the calender? ;) )
 
My initial experience with Realm Works was pretty smooth I felt. The category organization was easy to understand and very intuitive, and I was able to jump into creating content without much effort. I watched the series of intro videos that were published I believe just prior to the first early access release, but other than that I was able to get started without much additional research on how the tool works and without too many missteps. I had a few instances where I ended up re-categorizing things after I'd started them, but this was very easy to do within the tool. I don't feel I had much in the way of "lost effort" while learning the tool. I can see that the new Family View might be a good entry point, but I actually feel that the learning effort required to start being productive with the tool as it was is pretty minor. Hats off to all of you for the excellent UI and layout :)
 
In terms of terminology... "Category" seems to belong where "Family" is now, and "Topic" where "Category" is... so "Entry" where "Topic" is might make sense. Of course, the down-side to that is a major re-arrangement. :(
 
Actually from the changes through each build this would have been simply great at the very beginning and would have utilized it to a greater degree. It would make having to not worry about whether the default categories are being adhered to or not. Using categories kind of throws things off and I can see how it would especially for new users too.

To be honest while I am by no means an expert yet.. this might make it a tad easier for me to do in the long run when I do some other things with realm input at a later time. I do not think this is by any means " dumbed down" either for us as long term beta users or ones that have been with it for a while that still have some problems. :)

Thanks Rob!!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top