Globetrotter
Well-known member
Adding mythic ranks to monsters is official.
I supposed I am missing your point again.
I supposed I am missing your point again.
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- The Lone Wolf Development Team
Mythic Rank
- Thread starter Globetrotter
- Start date
It is. That's the reason I'm supporting getting it added outside the editor. I don't agree with this being editor only as it creates hours of work to add mythic ranks to uncopiable races as you have to rebuild them completely.
As far as coding is concerned, I don't think that Paizo gives explicit directions on how to implement things (nor does catalyst game labs). I think it is up to the software developer how to best implement something. Look at the bestiary monster creator in depth, you'll see you can build just about any monster you want, even recreating 3.5 creatures, without using the editor. I don't think it's too much to add similar functionality for mythic monsters that augments the builder already present.
No, I stand corrected. Resume your normal discussion with my apologies for the side-track.
I don't mean any offense, but I honestly don't see what is so scary about the editor. Sure, there is a lot to it, but once you are on the tab to make the thing you want, each line has a helpful little ? icon next to it which explains what to use that button or field for. You can copy and look at existing things, there is a wealth of help here on the forums. Is there something we could do to make the editor less intimidating?
I'll admit that even non-mythic monster races are pretty fiddly to make in the editor, as in you have to bootstrap a ton of different things and assign tags, field values, and conditions to each of those bootstraps. Adding one more system on top of that just makes things more fiddly.
When designing the way mythic monsters worked, I had initially intended something a bit more customizable than what is currently available. Similar to the way "Customize?" removes default feat and skill choices so that the DM can re-assign them, I had plans to make that button (or another like it) remove the Mythic Racial Abilities/Path abilities. I think I was also going to make the Mythic rank an incrementer when you customized the monster as well. That'd allow a user to make a single "Base" mythic monster and then let others customize it as needed. I honestly don't think I considered integrating it into Mathias' monster creator system.
Unfortunately, the constraints of development and user expectation led to the deferral of that plan. It's on a far back burner at the moment. I'd still like to circle back to that sort of thing if I could find the time.
Anyhoo, that's my two cents.
I'll admit that even non-mythic monster races are pretty fiddly to make in the editor, as in you have to bootstrap a ton of different things and assign tags, field values, and conditions to each of those bootstraps. Adding one more system on top of that just makes things more fiddly.
When designing the way mythic monsters worked, I had initially intended something a bit more customizable than what is currently available. Similar to the way "Customize?" removes default feat and skill choices so that the DM can re-assign them, I had plans to make that button (or another like it) remove the Mythic Racial Abilities/Path abilities. I think I was also going to make the Mythic rank an incrementer when you customized the monster as well. That'd allow a user to make a single "Base" mythic monster and then let others customize it as needed. I honestly don't think I considered integrating it into Mathias' monster creator system.
Unfortunately, the constraints of development and user expectation led to the deferral of that plan. It's on a far back burner at the moment. I'd still like to circle back to that sort of thing if I could find the time.
Anyhoo, that's my two cents.
Last edited:
Globetrotter
Well-known member
If course you don't have problems with the editor, you use it all the time.
I do not. I do not understand it and I'm guessing a lot of other people also do not.
It has need stated that people with programming background have trouble. I have none.
Bootstrap... I have no idea what that means. Search the boards here for all the people that cannot do things and the blocks of complicated text that follow.
If it was easy, like you suggestion, here would be a lot fewer questions.
My 2 cents
I do not. I do not understand it and I'm guessing a lot of other people also do not.
It has need stated that people with programming background have trouble. I have none.
Bootstrap... I have no idea what that means. Search the boards here for all the people that cannot do things and the blocks of complicated text that follow.
If it was easy, like you suggestion, here would be a lot fewer questions.
My 2 cents
I have to agree, I'm sorry Aaron.
I'm a software engineer, and it took me a while to get comfortable with the nuances of the editor. now granted, the Pathfinder one is MUCH nicer than the D20 one (I use both), but its still complicated.
Now dont get me wrong, I LOVE the power of the editor, and I dont see a way to make it any more user friendly with everything it can do, but witht he power it gives there are a lot of confusing things.
The tutorials are useful, but I've been looking for a long time with a document that has layed out all the tags and variables. A lot of the time its guess work, or copying existing items, feats, etc. Its just not very well documented.
for someone that doesnt come with a programming or scripting background, it might be very daunting.
I'm a software engineer, and it took me a while to get comfortable with the nuances of the editor. now granted, the Pathfinder one is MUCH nicer than the D20 one (I use both), but its still complicated.
Now dont get me wrong, I LOVE the power of the editor, and I dont see a way to make it any more user friendly with everything it can do, but witht he power it gives there are a lot of confusing things.
The tutorials are useful, but I've been looking for a long time with a document that has layed out all the tags and variables. A lot of the time its guess work, or copying existing items, feats, etc. Its just not very well documented.
for someone that doesnt come with a programming or scripting background, it might be very daunting.
As for a suggestion, I imagine a "lite" editor, might be useful to some people. just the ability to assign certain stats to monsters via checksboxes, items, etc. Preexisting effects, not custom effects.
i dont know if its worth the programming time to do it, but that might make the editor seem less daunting to the less power user.
i dont know if its worth the programming time to do it, but that might make the editor seem less daunting to the less power user.
Aaron,
Step outside your comfort zone as a programmer and take a few moments to build something in hero lab without the editor. Now think about the learning curve involved in point and click in the user interface, most of that people learned already. Nothing new there, if you can play solitare on your PC, you can build a character in hero lab.
Now think about the learning curve on the editor. If you aren't someone that adds custom content on a regular basis, there is a lot of material to learn. Mathias has helped me for many years on learning the editor through the forums. Have you seen my post count? Probably half that number is from questions asked. If someone just wants to make mythic monsters out of existing ones it's a lot of work and discouraging to a user that isn't used to it because there's a learning curve.
Step outside your comfort zone as a programmer and take a few moments to build something in hero lab without the editor. Now think about the learning curve involved in point and click in the user interface, most of that people learned already. Nothing new there, if you can play solitare on your PC, you can build a character in hero lab.
Now think about the learning curve on the editor. If you aren't someone that adds custom content on a regular basis, there is a lot of material to learn. Mathias has helped me for many years on learning the editor through the forums. Have you seen my post count? Probably half that number is from questions asked. If someone just wants to make mythic monsters out of existing ones it's a lot of work and discouraging to a user that isn't used to it because there's a learning curve.
I'd just like to offer the counterpoint that I am not a software engineer. My training is in the biological sciences. Variation is a thing, some folks will be daunted and others will not.
The documentation suggestion is a good one, I agree.
Protip: I believe users can already access all the tags defined in the core program by looking into the tags.1st file. Most of them have notes alongside them which explain their function, though the organization is a bit messy.
Aaron,
The tags.1st file isn't available for us to look at... in any of the systems outside of Savage Worlds and 4th edition.
It's not there. I've looked in the pathfinder data enough times to say it is missing. It's hidden, as are the other source files for pathfinder. That is why sometimes I say I can't do things without source code access. Hero Lab hides the source code for pathfinder and other systems. It is also why I pester Mathias for bits of code on the Authoring Kit when I need them. If I had source code access to every system I wouldn't need to ask so many questions. But alas, I do not.
Just so people know, I am also not a software engineer. I was required to take C++ programming as part of my field of study so that I could solve complex equations with numeric methods over large iterative cycles. I am an applied mathematician/physicist.
Just so people know, I am also not a software engineer. I was required to take C++ programming as part of my field of study so that I could solve complex equations with numeric methods over large iterative cycles. I am an applied mathematician/physicist.
Globetrotter
Well-known member
I am just an office worker...
I could probably learn the editor, but I do not want to. Without being rude (I write like an ass, so please don't think I am trying to be rude), I bought this program so I didn't have to do this stuff.
If it becomes easier to use pen and paper, I will have to do that for my creations, but I really do not want to. This program is amazing and I never want to go back to the old way of creating characters. I am mostly a DM, so I use this to create my NPC's and buff monsters for my games. it is so easy to make a custom monster to amazing my players. this is the main reason for the program.
I do not know how much I have paid for this program, but just in the past year I have spent $130. I am pretty sure I have probably dropped 2-3 hundred on this. I am a solid supporter and it is worth every penny.
It is worth my money so I do not have to learn an editor or programming. I would rather pay than spend my very limited time doing extra work. I want to focus that energy in creating and not coding.
A lite editor... I would probably still not use it. I just want a system that I can create a mythic creature easier. Right now, you can add mythic, and pick your path. Just add a drop down for rank as well. Give the +10 HP per level, or whatever it is, let me pick my feats according to the rules and move past.
Now, that is probably really hard to do, but I am sure it is in your ability to do it. You did create an entire kingdom section and a character background generator. As mythic is used more and more, this is a feature that will give us a relief instead of frustration.
I hope you guys can find a way to do it. Until then, I will be a happy supporter and hope we can continue to grow as a community.
I could probably learn the editor, but I do not want to. Without being rude (I write like an ass, so please don't think I am trying to be rude), I bought this program so I didn't have to do this stuff.
If it becomes easier to use pen and paper, I will have to do that for my creations, but I really do not want to. This program is amazing and I never want to go back to the old way of creating characters. I am mostly a DM, so I use this to create my NPC's and buff monsters for my games. it is so easy to make a custom monster to amazing my players. this is the main reason for the program.
I do not know how much I have paid for this program, but just in the past year I have spent $130. I am pretty sure I have probably dropped 2-3 hundred on this. I am a solid supporter and it is worth every penny.
It is worth my money so I do not have to learn an editor or programming. I would rather pay than spend my very limited time doing extra work. I want to focus that energy in creating and not coding.
A lite editor... I would probably still not use it. I just want a system that I can create a mythic creature easier. Right now, you can add mythic, and pick your path. Just add a drop down for rank as well. Give the +10 HP per level, or whatever it is, let me pick my feats according to the rules and move past.
Now, that is probably really hard to do, but I am sure it is in your ability to do it. You did create an entire kingdom section and a character background generator. As mythic is used more and more, this is a feature that will give us a relief instead of frustration.
I hope you guys can find a way to do it. Until then, I will be a happy supporter and hope we can continue to grow as a community.
ShadowChemosh
Well-known member
Part of the core files where OGL so Tags and XML for classes where in a sub-folder for 3.5 called "Source". The main files that actually control the creation of say tables or portals are not in that folder. That is why you found access to the tags though. Most of the "Helper.?" like tags could be seen.
This sub-folder does not exist for Pathfinder. Just FYI only. Not taking any sides here.
Crazy, no. Not yet. You've certainly failed a few sanity checks from Cthulhu's presence though, so I am not sure just how far you've got to go... I guess it depends on how many ranks you've put into Knowledge (cthulhu mythos)...
I came here hoping to learn how to add Mythic Ranks to a creature. I'm disappointed that after spending well above $100 on Hero Lab, what is supposed to be my time saving accessory, that I have to dig into an editor that I'm absolutely unfamiliar with. Lone Wolf, please implement mythic ranks into the user interface of Hero Lab.