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Mutants and Masterminds 3rd Edition / DC Adventures

I'm sure I asked this someplace else, but I can't for the life of me find the thread I posted this question in, so I'll add it here.

Will it be possible, if we have both the 2E and 3E licenses, to have some kind of feature where we can load portfolios from 2E and convert them to 3E with a minimum of fuss? I don't know if the software makes that easy or not, but if it were possible, it'd be really awesome. I'd even be willing to pay a few bucks for just that feature alone... I have hundreds of characters under the 2E that I'd love to easily port over to use with 3E... :)
 
If I update my current group to 3e and then find that I have another group that still uses 2e will I be able to switch between editions in Hero Lab, or will the update over write the 2e core files?
 
Shadowchaser: We generally don't do pre-orders - pre-orders are useful when physical product is being printed and shipped, because you need to know how much of it to create. Since a new M&M package would be electronic-only, everyone who wants it can just buy it the day of release, and keep their money until then. :)

I'm not sure about converting M&M2 characters to M&M3; it would be a decent amount of work for us to do, and that's beside any concerns about how a character from M&M2 would work in M&M3.

Kesendeja: The two game systems will be totally separate. The M&M3 data files will not overwrite M&M2 - they will co-exist on your computer.
 
Thanks for the responses, Colen.

I don't know if anyone else would be willing, but a 'click to convert' function for 2E to 3E (and maybe back the other way) would be worth some extra money to me. Might be something you'd want to investigate once you get the 3E stuff rolling along. :)

Of course, like you need me to tell you your job. :D
 
In an ideal world, what I'd like to do (no guarantee that we'll actually be able to accomplish this) is simply let you load the M&M3 game system, then just open an M&M2 hero. The hero would then load into the M&M3 data files, although information might be lost - for example, if a certain power was removed from M&M3, that power would not be loaded, and you'd have to reassign the points yourself.
 
^_^ This kind of falls under how it would be nice, in some cases, for users to be able to create little macros for things like this. Theoretically, we already can for any dataset we understand, since it's all XML, but there are enough fiddly bits in the XML that it would be nice to be able to handle it from one step higher.

The other big macro-ish thing I'd like to be able to do is a rough PL scaler. Nothing sophisticated, just something that, for NPCs, let's me take every bonus and every penalty and apply a scaling factor, always rounding down. TO give an example:
Hit-Man PL 10
STR 26 (+8) DEX 18 (+4) CON 20 (+5) etc [34 pp]
Base Defense 6, Dodge Bonus 4 [16 pp] Total 10 Defense
Strike 10 (Accurate 2) [12 pp]
Protection 5 [5 pp]

Toughness save of 5+5=10

Hit-Man roughly scaled to PL 12
STR 10+(16*(12/10)=18)=28 (+9) DEX 10+(8*12/10=9)=19 (+4) CON 10+(10*12/10=12)=22 (+6) [39 pp]
Base Defense (6*12/10 = 7) Dodge Bonus (4*12/10=4) [18 pp] Total 11 Defense
Strike 10*12/10=12 (Accurate 2) [14 pp]
Protection 5*12/10=6 [6 pp]

Toughness save of 6+6=12

It's a rough value and they'll usually come out slightly under-points, but it allows you to grab the Battlesuit archive and quickly stick him in as a PL12 boss, or correspondingly lower him to a PL 7 minion, without having to do a lot of math. ^_^ Any merit?
 
That's a really good idea, Duggan - it'd be awesome if you could easily scale up or down any NPC, to make it fit your campaign. I'll investigate this and see how easy it would be.
 
Colen said:
In an ideal world, what I'd like to do (no guarantee that we'll actually be able to accomplish this) is simply let you load the M&M3 game system, then just open an M&M2 hero. The hero would then load into the M&M3 data files, although information might be lost - for example, if a certain power was removed from M&M3, that power would not be loaded, and you'd have to reassign the points yourself.
Click to expand...

Instead of just dropping the power, what if it loaded it as a "Custom" power, with a description alerting the user that the power was no longer in the system and would need to be adjusted if it was supposed to interact with other stats/powers?

Just a thought. :)

I also LOVE love LOVE the 'Scaling' option concept! Being able to take any NPC and just click up or down on a Scale Power Level (perhaps as an Optional Tab, like the Mecha tab) would be amazingly useful. You could turn a soldier into a space marine with a few clicks. :)

If you make it an Optional Tab, you could fine-tune the settings of what gets scaled, too, bringing up a whole page of settings you can tweak.
 
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Well I wish M&M 3E would just drop the old boring levels system and just go straight points system, far simpler, I have always felt the dumb d20 levels system just never fit a supers style campaign. I mean, hell what level can you put on Superman or Darkseid? Just never made sense anyhow, just use straight points like the old DC Heroes system and leave it at that, maybe even drop the d20 system altogether and go with 2d10 (still gives a range of 2-20).
 
flyingcircus said:
Well I wish M&M 3E would just drop the old boring levels system and just go straight points system, far simpler, I have always felt the dumb d20 levels system just never fit a supers style campaign. I mean, hell what level can you put on Superman or Darkseid? Just never made sense anyhow, just use straight points like the old DC Heroes system and leave it at that, maybe even drop the d20 system altogether and go with 2d10 (still gives a range of 2-20).
Click to expand...

Admitting up front that I know nothing about what M&M 3E will or won't be doing. :)

That said, I like how Power Level and Power Points work in conjunction. You can have two NPC's built on, say, 165 points. For the purposes of this example let's pretend Arrays don't exist and powers have to be bought individually, no Alts for a single PP. ;)

The NPC at PL 11 could have close to a dozen powers at Rank 11 that have effects across the continent (maybe a little exaggeration there).

The NPC at PL 5 on the other hand will be able to have over two dozen powers to select from with points left over for other Traits. They just aren't going to be affecting anything beyond, say, a football stadium's distance from him.

Thus, two fellows with the same point total but very different in concept and how they interact with the world. :)

Anyway, that's my two cent's worth. M&M 3E is many months away so no sense worrying about it now. ;)

As always, keep up the good work,
Nigel Fogg, aka The Wayfarer
 
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I agree with Nigel Fogg. Power levels are necessary to stop imbalances, like one character in a group taking a single power that can destroy the entire earth, and another character taking 10 less powerful powers.

Are both of those players really going to have fun in that game? Either the powerful guy is going to one shot the supervillain, or twiddle his thumbs all adventure as the more well-rounded character does all the actual work.

If you don't like that, just play without power level limits. Hero Lab even supports that! :)
 
I actually like the PL limits- giving out x.p. without raising the level limit forces the characters to be a bit more well-rounded. No character should be a single-power cardboard cut-out (even if that power is the Armeggedon Style: Papercut of the Apocalypse-jutsu).
 
RedBeardSean said:
I actually like the PL limits- giving out x.p. without raising the level limit forces the characters to be a bit more well-rounded. No character should be a single-power cardboard cut-out (even if that power is the Armeggedon Style: Papercut of the Apocalypse-jutsu).
Click to expand...

I refer to them as cookie-cutter characters but it's the same thing. ;)

My current group has just decided that they have no option but to "become more well-rounded" with the recent point awards. Whereas my character started out well rounded, and thus lower ranks, but is now on the path to increased "raw" power. ;-)

Different strokes for different folks. :)
 
Currently we have three guys that have bought Herolab at our table for Pathfinder and another guy ready to buy Herolab. I've always loved Superheroes since I was a kid but D&D was the only roleplaying game in town back then.

I remember when M&M first came about, I bought a few of their books but no one I knew wanted to do a superhero campaign. The love remained deep inside and I would check out the M&M site from time to time. Now I was thinking of buying the M&M add-on for HL, just to have fun with it. After checking out the M&M site I heard that a 3rd edition is coming and a DC version!

So here I am looking at the forum for any news about it... wham! So should I wait for the 3rd edition M&M to make it to Herolab as a add-on correct? Or do I buy both the current M&M add-on with the 3rd ed M&M add on?

I can wait but if I need to have the current version, I may get it now to mess with (just for fun on the side).

Exciting times if the DC license works out for Herolab but if not, as it was mentioned earlier in the thread, we could just do that on our own with DC characters.

As my current DM says, "Did I tell you guys how awesome Herolab is?" A million times over. :)

EK
 
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EberronKnight said:
Currently we have three guys that have bought Herolab at our table for Pathfinder and another guy ready to buy Herolab. I've always loved Superheroes since I was a kid but D&D was the only roleplaying game in town back then.

I remember when M&M first came about, I bought a few of their books but no one I knew wanted to do a superhero campaign. The love remained deep inside and I would check out the M&M site from time to time. Now I was thinking of buying the M&M add-on for HL, just to have fun with it. After checking out the M&M site I heard that a 3rd edition is coming and a DC version!

So here I am looking at the forum for any news about it... wham! So should I wait for the 3rd edition M&M to make it to Herolab as a add-on correct? Or do I buy both the current M&M add-on with the 3rd ed M&M add on?

I can wait but if I need to have the current version, I may get it now to mess with (just for fun on the side).

Exciting times if the DC license works out for Herolab but if not, as it was mentioned earlier in the thread, we could just do that on our own with DC characters.

As my current DM says, "Did I tell you guys how awesome Herolab is?" A million times over. :)

EK
Click to expand...

Hello and welcome EK :)

My group tried & hated D&D 4.0 (but we love the SAGA edition of Star Wars which has all the playing goodness that D&D 4.0 watered-down/stripped out) and have stuck with D&D. 3.5 which HL supports very well indeed. We haven't tried Pathfinder, which we call D&D 3.75, yet but may someday.

Anyway, my $0.02 worth is that because M&M 3rd Ed. is months away you should get the current version and experience the wonders of letting the software handle the math & those pesky hidden bonuses/hindrances that you missed because they were buried deep in the rulebooks/errata. ;)

Of course, this is just one man's opinion. Spend or don't spend your $$ as you choose.

.....but you'd be foolish not to get the M&M module. :p

Nigel Fogg, aka The Wayfarer
 
EberronKnight said:
Currently we have three guys that have bought Herolab at our table for Pathfinder and another guy ready to buy Herolab. I've always loved Superheroes since I was a kid but D&D was the only roleplaying game in town back then.

I remember when M&M first came about, I bought a few of their books but no one I knew wanted to do a superhero campaign. The love remained deep inside and I would check out the M&M site from time to time. Now I was thinking of buying the M&M add-on for HL, just to have fun with it. After checking out the M&M site I heard that a 3rd edition is coming and a DC version!

So here I am looking at the forum for any news about it... wham! So should I wait for the 3rd edition M&M to make it to Herolab as a add-on correct? Or do I buy both the current M&M add-on with the 3rd ed M&M add on?

I can wait but if I need to have the current version, I may get it now to mess with (just for fun on the side).

Exciting times if the DC license works out for Herolab but if not, as it was mentioned earlier in the thread, we could just do that on our own with DC characters.

As my current DM says, "Did I tell you guys how awesome Herolab is?" A million times over. :)

EK
Click to expand...

I'd go for it, if you plan to run M&M any time soon. After all, it's only 20 bucks for the license, and the M&M 3E will just be another 20 bucks. We're not sure when the 3E update will be released on Hero Lab either. They're HOPING it'll release in time for it to be used with the DC Adventures books, but it might not come out then. I don't know if that's more of a licensing issue or an issue of getting ready in time, but I got the impression they are already hard at work on it.

In either case, one of the ideas floating around (that I REALLY LOVE) is that they might try and let you load characters from 2E into the 3E ruleset to do 'automatic' conversions. Colen said it might not be possible, but they were looking into it. If that's the case, there's SO MANY characters I've made in 2E that it would save me literally DAYS of work converting 'em myself. :)

Anyway, either decision you make, I must agree. Hero Lab (and the people who make it) are flat-out awesome.

Thanks guys!
 
M&M2 and M&M3 are totally separate game systems, purchased separately within Hero Lab. Buying the M&M3 data package (when it releases) won't require that you already own M&M2, but it'll only let you create M&M3 characters. If you want to create both M&M2 and M&M3 characters, you'll need to buy both data packages.

Hope this helps!
 
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