I prefer, "Let's get calendars (and yes, sigh, printing/export) implemented alongside a Marketplace and..."
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- The Lone Wolf Development Team
Multiple gms for a single realm
- Thread starter cedwards4
- Start date
I prefer, "Let's get calendars (and yes, sigh, printing/export) implemented alongside a Marketplace and..."
I will take this as an insult (or proof of ignorance on your side), as you are making the argument way too easy for yourself. Sure Evernote has a lot more resources, but they have to offer a much bigger set of services*. My point was that the principal technology behind it is relatively simple by current standards and can be recreated with a fracture of those resouces. If you do not want to set up your own document-based NoSQL storage you could even use Evernotes infrastructure by integrating Evernote or build on top of their API; just check https://appcenter.evernote.com/.
If I have not made myself clear, I greatly appreciate RW for what it is and what has been accomplished with the available ressources. But I immediately see room for a technological leap. I have even started discussing such a software project with people in my work environment as I work in the industry myself.
*They create clients for at least six OSes + a webclient, browser plugins for multiple browsers, support the apps Skitch, Scannable, Penultimate, Clearly, Evernote Food for multiple OSes, and their software is available in at least 20 languages. They support systems that allow other developers to build apps on top of Evernote, have to support globally distributed server infrastructure for 100 million users, and god knows how many of those people work in marketing, sales, support, QA, international offices all over the globe. They are a company that started in 2007 and they operate in a totally different scope. So thanks for the FYI, but I already knew.
Now you're gonna make me flag my own post. Yes, it was an insult. Yes, I'm ignorant. I'm glad you recognize the difference in magnitude between the companies in scope and size. Check the attitude.
I'm personally quite amazed with what 10 or so LWD folks have accomplished in a niche market with limited resources and a ton of IP constraints. I cannot even fathom what adding 450 or so more staff and some decent resources could do for them in general and RW in particular.
And I forgot, welcome to the forums.
I'm personally quite amazed with what 10 or so LWD folks have accomplished in a niche market with limited resources and a ton of IP constraints. I cannot even fathom what adding 450 or so more staff and some decent resources could do for them in general and RW in particular.
And I forgot, welcome to the forums.
Dark Lord Galen
Well-known member
uncalled for and supporting evidence of potential "bridge dweller".
This, leads me to think.... SO??? if you prefer a setup similar to Evernote, then feel free to use it and their forum to improve its use to your needs. As Parody pointed out earlier in this thread, does it have some redeeming features, sure, but that is not how Evernote nor RW software is designed nor implemented. Both have differing markets.
The only thing I see abundantly clear is your lack of communication / people skills. In the minimal posts you have to date have all been negative without offering anything that resembles constructive.
ant this has what to do with what?? a resume? Seriously, if you are not contributing to a solution, then you are part of the problem. Where in any of your posts are you contributing to a solution?, query?
IF you already "knew" then what is your point? The point of any forum is not to discuss what other dissimilar companies do, but how there can be improvements to what is being done pertaining to the software (in this case) being used here. AEIOU is EXACTLY right your comparison's only tying connection is the word "Database". I would suggest you make better use of everyone's time by reading more of the forum to determine its conversation and goals than to have 4 posts that makes you "Think" you are a defining authority as to what the software should do and how they should go about doing it.
Your current collection of "posts" lack constructive purpose and led me to believe "Me thinks there is a bridge without a resident".
DLG
Dark Lord Galen
Well-known member
Sorry AEIOU, Farling has the order correct.
Seriously, this thread is "supposed" to be dedicated to how multiple DMs (GMs for you hairlings) can utilize at the same time... Time to get back on topic.
Until the full workings of the Marketplace come to light, a lot is conjecture.
However, one thought that could work (though I have not tested it) would be to "share backups"? IT would require ALOT of repetitive backing up and re-syncing, but "could" it be a work-around?
It would require abit of maneuvering...
1> both DMs have RW (obvious one there)
2> DM #1 Sync to RW Cloud
3> DM#1 Backup Realm
4> Copy realm to flash drive
5> DM#2 Restore realm from DM#1 to his copy of RW
6> DM#2 add whatever content DM#2 is managing
7> DM#2 Sync to RW Cloud
8> DM#2 Backup Realm
Rinse Repeat
Now the two versions of the Syncs on the cloud would still be separate, because they are tied to User accounts, not PC Ids, but backing up at both points would prevent some data corruption.
To my knowledge, there is nothing in the "backup file" that ties it to the user account (Rob, one of his minion would have to clarify). IF there is not, then "might be" a cumbersome workaround for a few months till the marketplace takes off....
Thoughts?
Until all the data is stored in the cloud all the time, I can't think of a good way to easily implement a checkout process.
However, I can't see any reason not to allow multiple GMs per realm right now. Warn them of the consequences and then click six little buttons that say "I've read this warning" and then type the phrase: "I understand that data WILL be lost if another GM saves over material that they had not synched prior to making changes."
If DLG and I teamed up, he'd be working on calendars and I'd be working on getting material ready for export. He'd save his work to the cloud first because he's smarter than me. And I'd save over his work later that evening.
I win!..errr, I mean that's OUR problem because we both worked on the data at the same time and we understood that this was a no-no. We should haveo coordinated our efforts more effectively or we should have figured out which one of us had the more important data.
However, I can't see any reason not to allow multiple GMs per realm right now. Warn them of the consequences and then click six little buttons that say "I've read this warning" and then type the phrase: "I understand that data WILL be lost if another GM saves over material that they had not synched prior to making changes."
If DLG and I teamed up, he'd be working on calendars and I'd be working on getting material ready for export. He'd save his work to the cloud first because he's smarter than me. And I'd save over his work later that evening.
I win!..errr, I mean that's OUR problem because we both worked on the data at the same time and we understood that this was a no-no. We should haveo coordinated our efforts more effectively or we should have figured out which one of us had the more important data.
However, ALL the data in the cloud is worrisome - at least to me.
The reason? My understanding of the consequence is, that you will then have to be 'always online' when using RW.
It often happens that I am places where I have no or poor internet connection but loads of time to work on my projects.
No, all the data is in cloud after you Sync your changes.
Until you Sync, all modifications are only stored locally on your own machine.
Sorry AEIOU, Farling has the order correct.
To my knowledge, there is nothing in the "backup file" that ties it to the user account (Rob, one of his minion would have to clarify). IF there is not, then "might be" a cumbersome workaround for a few months till the marketplace takes off....
Thoughts?
When you first create a realm you have to be online, this is so that the cloud server can provide your realm with a unique id.
Thus, trying to share the backup file is not going to work between different people's realms.
The only way your scenario could possibly work is for DM1 to sync changes with the cloud, provide you with his master.realm for you to add your own local changes. You would provide the updated master.realm back to the DM1 and _he_ would then sync your changes back to the cloud again.
We are getting into the bizarre peculiarities of sync logic, here, which in general I think we need to leave to LWD (tell them what we want, let them sweat the how).
Right now (if I'm understanding RW right) the sync logic is looking at differences, and offering the user which realm to keep. Shared GMing will need to do something similar, but be looking for conflicts rather than differences, auto sync non-conflicting data, and ask the user to resolve the conflicts (or have a GMing hierarchy in place so that GM 1's data overwrites GM 2's data in all cases).
Waaaaaaaaaay more complex.
Right now (if I'm understanding RW right) the sync logic is looking at differences, and offering the user which realm to keep. Shared GMing will need to do something similar, but be looking for conflicts rather than differences, auto sync non-conflicting data, and ask the user to resolve the conflicts (or have a GMing hierarchy in place so that GM 1's data overwrites GM 2's data in all cases).
Waaaaaaaaaay more complex.
Viking2054
Well-known member
Sorry AEIOU, Farling has the order correct.
Seriously, this thread is "supposed" to be dedicated to how multiple DMs (GMs for you hairlings) can utilize at the same time... Time to get back on topic.
Until the full workings of the Marketplace come to light, a lot is conjecture.
However, one thought that could work (though I have not tested it) would be to "share backups"? IT would require ALOT of repetitive backing up and re-syncing, but "could" it be a work-around?
It would require abit of maneuvering...
1> both DMs have RW (obvious one there)
2> DM #1 Sync to RW Cloud
3> DM#1 Backup Realm
4> Copy realm to flash drive
5> DM#2 Restore realm from DM#1 to his copy of RW
6> DM#2 add whatever content DM#2 is managing
7> DM#2 Sync to RW Cloud
8> DM#2 Backup Realm
Rinse Repeat
Now the two versions of the Syncs on the cloud would still be separate, because they are tied to User accounts, not PC Ids, but backing up at both points would prevent some data corruption.
To my knowledge, there is nothing in the "backup file" that ties it to the user account (Rob, one of his minion would have to clarify). IF there is not, then "might be" a cumbersome workaround for a few months till the marketplace takes off....
Thoughts?
Uhm... wouldn't each realm require a GUID (Globally Unique Identifier) that is generated when you created the realm (hence requiring an internet connection in order to create a Realm). Also, my understanding is that backing up is all realms and not an individual realm. So you would be passing back and forth multiple realms and multiple GUID's. And the GUID's would be tied to a user's account, in my opinion. I think this could become real messy real quick. The cloud service might also pitch a fit seeing the same GUID's uploaded to multiple accounts.
Dark Lord Galen
Well-known member
That was how I envisioned it, but not worth $ to test such a theory for something I would never use.
You are correct on getting the ALL or NONE effect.... didn't suggest this was a preferred application :O) just a bizarre hypothesis.
True, but as Chemlak suggests this changes the method the cloud server looks at the data from determining differences to resolving conflicts if we were to be working on similar parts of the same Realm, or for that matter how the links, etc would respond.
Win? naaa cause I will obviously realize that you failed to let me know you're syncing my sync and would restore since I backed up my version of the fille.... hehehe
Seriously, AEOIOU is quite right, it would require lots of good communication and forethought between each of "us" for this bizarre application.
Although, in the future, this thread could be the spark to what could be a community type of "Realm" that a new user could start from. hummmmmm But would require the cross communication and idea development being kicked about here to all use "One Realm" ....
If we build it they will come.....
One realm to RULE THEM ALL.... Mawwaahahahahhh
As others already voiced, you don't have to be on line to utilize, just to sync new data added with the old stored (If you choose to even do that). I agree with your concern, as I often work out of country in places that have sporadic internet service (let alone hot water), but again the lack of WIFI wont keep you from working on your realms, just keeps you from creating new ones and sync.
@Chemlak
You are quite right, not suggesting that this should be done, just that it might maybe could be done. there is ALOT of risk for the impatient wanting "quick fixes" ...
@ All, this of course, is a hypothetical solution without merit or testing. As others have mentioned (different thread I think) the more likely solution would be the ability to "share" a realm via an approval system, similar to a mass used *.doc file or DBS, With the "owner" approving and reconciling conflicts before syncing.... this of course is more programming (A lot) to appease what is probably a very small market of users.
Since everything is Snippet-based, one hack for conflict resolution would be to merge the Topics, with every unique Snippet being kept in the consolidated Topic. Some sort of highlighting would be helpful, identifying Snippets that were unique to each copy.
That would leave the work on us to figure out which Snippets are variants of another (and thus need to be reconciled), and which were new and can be left as-is.
That would leave the work on us to figure out which Snippets are variants of another (and thus need to be reconciled), and which were new and can be left as-is.
Dark Lord Galen
Well-known member
Good point, can also see this applied from a DM to player back to DM route as well... Currently the Player edition is incapable of passing information back to the DM via the realm. Utilizing an approach as you suggest, the player could "add" something to the version he/she has access to, sync and the "owner" DM could review, approve modify or reject.
This could lead to a lot of "fun player assumptions" that the DM could approve into the realm and then flag as "Untrue" ie like rumors leaving the player to determine the truths from the fictions... Seems this was kicked around in another thread but not the mechanics of how...
I am well aware that presently RW works well without internet connectivity, as long as you have at least one realm to work in.
It was the wording "everything in the cloud in the future" or something like that which worried me.
I suspect that Rob and team would find something more elegant on multi-GM conflicts. I see something like present them in a dialog similar to the linking dialogs we get now. It'd show us the topic, the conflict in the topic including who made which entry and offer someone the ability to pick one, the other or perhaps even combine the two for resolution later.
That would be the end-state. I think everything in my idea is a necessary intermediate step, except for the final "merge all into topic" - which they would want to keep anyhow, for those instances where you want to focus on something else (flash of inspiration, game-prep deadline, let the other person clean up their own mess, etc.).
For delayed cleanup there should also be an automatically selected Utility: Conflict tag to allow easy filtering so you know where to come back later.
For delayed cleanup there should also be an automatically selected Utility: Conflict tag to allow easy filtering so you know where to come back later.
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Viking2054
Well-known member
Wouldn't the "Feedback Notes" idea I proposed several months ago be a better way, at least initially to handle multiple contributors? Provided it isn't too hard or time consuming for LWD to implement that is.
Here is the link to the other thread if your interested. http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=50414
Here is the link to the other thread if your interested. http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=50414
Dark Lord Galen
Well-known member
Ah quite right Viking... I remember your thread on that... and can see an applied use here...