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- The Lone Wolf Development Team
Microsoft Surface RT
- Thread starter Trexnco
- Start date
ShadowChemosh
Well-known member
If I understand it all correctly Windows RT is not actually "windows". Well not the same as the desktop version. It requires very special "Apps" that are designed from the ground up to work on Windows RT. Hero Lab is not one of those as it is a full windows program.
So its sort of like trying to install a Windows program onto a Apple iPad and it won't work.
So its sort of like trying to install a Windows program onto a Apple iPad and it won't work.
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Yes, Shadow is correct. A machine with Windows RT is not a real PC.
The chip at the heart of the machine (CPU) is not the same as (nor compatible with) the one you find in a standard PC, and so -no- application written for standard Windows will work on Windows RT (and vice versa).
Microsoft knew this confusion would happen, but wanted to sell very cheap things that they wanted to call PCs.
The chip at the heart of the machine (CPU) is not the same as (nor compatible with) the one you find in a standard PC, and so -no- application written for standard Windows will work on Windows RT (and vice versa).
Microsoft knew this confusion would happen, but wanted to sell very cheap things that they wanted to call PCs.
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charlieluce
Well-known member
I don't know if it helps you much, but there is a free-for-non-commercial app & server program called TeamViewer that makes it easy to remote into a Windows PC from a Surface RT.
nullPointer
Well-known member
Similarly free-for-everyone VNC and its many forks
It is this king of total misinformation that skews perception. I am by no means Microsoft's biggest fan, but FUD is far worse then being a Fanboi.
ONE: Surface RT was not created to be cheap. It was conceived to be MS's answer to the Ipad and android tablets. Guess what? they share the same ARM based CPU architecture.
TWO: Although cheap may used to describe many products it must then be used to describe the buyers of them. So by Farling's logic if we do not all own 13,000 CAD computer workstation we bought "a cheap" product.
NO. See the world of retail is broken up into what we normal people call "budgets", this little term is extremely important for those in business of selling to the general public to understand. Ever person does not have 13k for a computer, so they make them, from low end to high end price points, exactly the same idea was put to Surface tablets, we have many different configs and prices.
NEED/WANTS: The next most important concept. Not everyone0 needs nor wants a $2000 i7 based Surface 3 Pro, including me, which is why I own the 128GB SSD/i5/4GB ram model. It serves my needs perfectly with a little room to grow.
Microsoft simply wanted a piece of the Android and Ipad tablet market with the RT. I consider this a poor choice, if they had done their research better, they would have known the bottom would fall out of this market. And as I stated on many occasions, it did. That's why it has been dropped.
To fit the low end budget slot that the RT held, they have now introduced the new Surface 3, with an Atom based proc. So for those with a lower budget, and it fills the need/want, you can get a surface running full windows for a lower price point.
You can call it el cheapo, but some people actually purchase with their brains, not me mind you, but some people do. Thus they maybe cheap, or they may be know that the hundreds they saved just went into the RRSP for retirement.
It is a pity people bought the RT thinking it was a PC, but it was never ever marketed as one. In store or online stores market what they want how they want, but Microsoft was pretty clear on this.
I am sorry you bought an RT thinking it was a windows tablet. But this exemplifies one thing I cannot stress enough to all buyers, do your research, ask friends or people you know who are in the know before buying. Almost no one I know personally buys computers or any electronics before asking me, I am not all knowing but its been my field of expertise since I booted my brand new TI99/4A computer. Like I have a friend banker, I go to him for advice before ever making big loan inducing purchases, because that's his area of expertise and he saved me a bundle with advice, over 5k on my 2010 Explorer Sport-Trac Adrenaline loan.
Can you take it back? you may find a use for it, but the RT was a failed market investment for Microsoft, hence there has not been an RT version of the Surface 2 or 3 and none for the 4 coming with Windows 10 release either.
ChrisRevocateur
Well-known member
That's just not true. We sold the RT version of the 2 at the store I work at. It didn't use the RT in the name, but the design was the same. A tablet only able to run Windows Store "Modern" apps. They came with Office RT because people complained that the original RTs couldn't run Office, and that's why they got a Windows device in the first place.
We had quite a few Surface 2's returned because of this, and these people almost invariably either got a laptop, or a Surface 2 Pro (depending on their budget).
What Microsoft should learn here is don't put the Windows name on something that isn't actually full Windows.
This!
charlieluce
Well-known member
Something to remember this summer if you're looking to buy a small Windows tablet, since there will be a similar distinction between Windows 10 and Windows 10 Mobile.
WOW...so much misinformation:
As a current owner of a Surface 2, Windows 8/8.1/10 Beta tester, and current researcher into upgrading to Surface 3, let me clear some things up for you.
I am not going to weigh in on whether it was a mistake or not for Microsoft to release RT or not, since that is all opinion, and, as a previous poster has mentioned, it served a specific purpose when released but MS has chosen to abandon it for various stated reasons. Everything else is just opinion.
However, here are some facts:
1) There is little to NO difference OS wise between the RT and a normal version of Windows 8.1, save one thing: They have crippled the ability to install externally originating software. They have basically inserted a tiny block in the OS that prevents you from "running setup.exe". Now, it is much more complex than that, but that is essentially what was done. Aside from that, there is an entirely functional version of the Windows 8.1 OS on the Surface 2. Don't believe me? Go into the Desktop and look around. Go to Control Panel. Fire up regedit and poke around. It has ALL of the features that come with an out-of-the-box version of Windows 8.1. Hook it up to a Bluetooth mouse, bluetooth keyboard, and remote monitor. It is Windows 8.1, only without the ability to install outside programs (like Herolab).
2) Even though it was initially released to compete with the iPad and Android, one of the major problems consumers had with it was that it WAS more like an actual computer as opposed to an app-driven tablet. You want to know what the iPad has so many non-game apps? CAUSE SAFARI SUCKS! Apple choked on Java from the beginning and the iPad was no better. Apple needed all of those apps to allow their users to access things that the rest of us can get to through the web. So what was the first thing tablet users did with the RT? Search for Apps, which, in honesty, there weren't as many. But what was never stressed was that 95% of the things the iPad needed an app for, the Surface allowed you to access via the web.
3) The Surface was not designed as a game machine. It was designed for business users, such as myself, who needed the ability to have a slim, lightweight, machine that would allow me to access all of my business data (web, cloud, shared network drives, email, office, etc...) without having to fire up a bulky laptop. It allowed me to access the same environment/data/etc as was sitting on my full-blown desktop PC from wherever I was.
If you want to play Angry Birds and Candy Crush, then stick with your iPad...the Surface was not for you.
Now, MS has chosen to go with the Surface 3 and 3 Pro and, soon, the 4. Each one will have its own differences and be targeted at a different kind of user. But make no mistake: These are NOT MS's version of the iPad.
Just my 2 cents...
-GP
As a current owner of a Surface 2, Windows 8/8.1/10 Beta tester, and current researcher into upgrading to Surface 3, let me clear some things up for you.
I am not going to weigh in on whether it was a mistake or not for Microsoft to release RT or not, since that is all opinion, and, as a previous poster has mentioned, it served a specific purpose when released but MS has chosen to abandon it for various stated reasons. Everything else is just opinion.
However, here are some facts:
1) There is little to NO difference OS wise between the RT and a normal version of Windows 8.1, save one thing: They have crippled the ability to install externally originating software. They have basically inserted a tiny block in the OS that prevents you from "running setup.exe". Now, it is much more complex than that, but that is essentially what was done. Aside from that, there is an entirely functional version of the Windows 8.1 OS on the Surface 2. Don't believe me? Go into the Desktop and look around. Go to Control Panel. Fire up regedit and poke around. It has ALL of the features that come with an out-of-the-box version of Windows 8.1. Hook it up to a Bluetooth mouse, bluetooth keyboard, and remote monitor. It is Windows 8.1, only without the ability to install outside programs (like Herolab).
2) Even though it was initially released to compete with the iPad and Android, one of the major problems consumers had with it was that it WAS more like an actual computer as opposed to an app-driven tablet. You want to know what the iPad has so many non-game apps? CAUSE SAFARI SUCKS! Apple choked on Java from the beginning and the iPad was no better. Apple needed all of those apps to allow their users to access things that the rest of us can get to through the web. So what was the first thing tablet users did with the RT? Search for Apps, which, in honesty, there weren't as many. But what was never stressed was that 95% of the things the iPad needed an app for, the Surface allowed you to access via the web.
3) The Surface was not designed as a game machine. It was designed for business users, such as myself, who needed the ability to have a slim, lightweight, machine that would allow me to access all of my business data (web, cloud, shared network drives, email, office, etc...) without having to fire up a bulky laptop. It allowed me to access the same environment/data/etc as was sitting on my full-blown desktop PC from wherever I was.
If you want to play Angry Birds and Candy Crush, then stick with your iPad...the Surface was not for you.
Now, MS has chosen to go with the Surface 3 and 3 Pro and, soon, the 4. Each one will have its own differences and be targeted at a different kind of user. But make no mistake: These are NOT MS's version of the iPad.
Just my 2 cents...
-GP
I stand corrected, the 2 did see an "RT" type version.
There was a difference, x86 and ARM are completely different architectures, thus the OS is very much different in the case of the which Surface you own. x86 aps do not install on RT versions because they can't run on an ARM based processor that runs RT based surfaces. Stating anything else is misinformation at it worst. Windows RT is simply a modern version of MS's previously failed mobile OS Windows CE, OK not simply, but essentially a re envisioning of the CE family to ARM.
The dream of Java was compile once run anywhere, You can argue on success for decades.
Windows 10 is MS's first attempt of being a "platform OS", meaning unlike every version before it, you will be able to run the some of the same apps on ARM, Xbox, or a PC. However I will tell you now, do not dream of the day you run Battlefield 5 on Windows 10 on ARM and PC same install, just because the OS supports this does not mean applications will not still be programmed for specific architectures. Also currently almost all ARM based systems are 32bit, and x86 processors have been 64bit for many years even if most of us got 64bit OS with Vista or Win 7. Recently we have finally seen game and game engines being 64bit.
Windows RT is a 32bit core kernel, Windows 8/8.1 almost all of us have on our PCs for the most part is a 64bit core kernel. Just so it is clear, a 64bit OS can sun a 32bit app, 32bit OS cannot run a 64bit app, though that still does not account for the architecture required.
Definitely!
And, as seen by the OP, many people bought one of these machines because they saw "Microsoft Windows" was the operating system. (Home, RT, Pro - all just different versions of windows; but all compatible?)
Microsoft's intentions mean nothing when they seed confusion amongst the general public.
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Nobody claimed that there wasn't a difference in hardware, which is what you are referring to. When you install Windows 8.1 on different hardware configurations, be they Surface Tablets, non-Surface Tablets, laptops, or desktop PCs, different things get installed and "activated" based on what hardware is there. That doesn't mean that you have a "different" version of Windows 8.1.
As I stated, the RT version contained all of the same OS functionality as a non-RT version, save the ability to install external applications.
I'm sorry that people bought the original Surface or the Surface 2 without doing any research into what they were buying. MS has done some pretty shady things in the past, but I'm sorry, they were VERY open and upfront in the beginning about what the differences were.
-GP
I am in no way a computer person but I will share what I experienced when I went to buy a Surface. I walked up to the Microsoft rep who was there showing off the Surface. The first question he asked me was did I want to run other windows software. When I said yes, he pointed at the RT version and said: "Don't look at these then, they will not fit your needs." He made sure I knew from the start. So I ended up not buying either at the time because I could get a Windows laptop for less than the Pro version at the time.
I loved the idea of the Surface but passed when he explained the limits the one in my budget range had.
I loved the idea of the Surface but passed when he explained the limits the one in my budget range had.
You're lucky to have been to somewhere with a Microsoft Rep. Many computer stores have staff who don't know this information and/or just want to sell something to get the sale.
Also, any initial "education" by Microsoft was obviously missed by Trexnco, so the "learning" wasn't kept up after initial release.
Very true and you cannot state this enough, and the biggest culprits of this are the big box stores. I bought my S3P at BestBuy, but I did not need any assistance, I have nearing now 25yrs in the industry and currently am the reason we are moving to S3Ps in our enterprise, did a presentation to my CIO and Executive Technology director, instant sell.
However unless you are in the IT technology field this poses an issue, misinformation, lack of research, and lack of just knowing where to get solid help. Most box store sales staff are not much more knowledgeable then the person they are selling too.
If even one person seeks professional assistance after reading this thread before their next computer purchase, I will consider this time extremely well spent.
Hopefully this won't be a problem anymore.
If you can return it, return it immediately and get a Surface 3. They start at 499$ and dropped the "RT" tag as it now runs full Windows 8.1 (upgrades to 10) and runs on an regular Intel chip.
2gb of ram, it won't run all your windows apps as well as a SP3 Pro would but with a SSD drive for swap, it shouldn't be terrible. It'll run HL fine and read PDF's just fine. Personally I think the RT was a "beta test" and a "bandaid" until Intel and MS could get a platform out that was decent on battery life yet powerful enough.
I wonder how long we have to wait for Lone Wolf to start supporting us "Windows Tablet" users now and upgrade the interface to be more touch friendly...
If you can return it, return it immediately and get a Surface 3. They start at 499$ and dropped the "RT" tag as it now runs full Windows 8.1 (upgrades to 10) and runs on an regular Intel chip.
2gb of ram, it won't run all your windows apps as well as a SP3 Pro would but with a SSD drive for swap, it shouldn't be terrible. It'll run HL fine and read PDF's just fine. Personally I think the RT was a "beta test" and a "bandaid" until Intel and MS could get a platform out that was decent on battery life yet powerful enough.
I wonder how long we have to wait for Lone Wolf to start supporting us "Windows Tablet" users now and upgrade the interface to be more touch friendly...