Mapping software

[MNBlockHead]

I also just purchased Cityographer, a java program that will generate a villeage, town, or city in just one click. It does not have all the bells and whistles of Campaign Cartographer and its City Mapper add-on, but it is much simpler to use. Also, not only will it create a city, including rivers, coast, roads, vegetation, and buildings (the number of which it will auto create based on studies of how many of various merchants etc. different populations supported in the middle ages) but it will also populate the business, homes, and farmsteads with characters and provide the items available and their prices for shops.

If you want a beautiful city with a highly customized look, CC3 is still the way to go. But if you need a quick village or town generated, fully populated, Cityographer is a god send. I find it particularly useful for generating villages. My campaign world is too large to plot out all the villages and towns. I have the major cities, have the populations, and an idea of population densities of different areas and roughly how far apart one would expect villages.

What Cityographer allows me to do is have a table for randomly determining whether the party comes across a village or how far the nearest population center is (which I can then mark using a pin on the smart map. Then, if the party decides to tally and spend any time in the village; I can, on the spot, auto generate the town—all buildings, roads, population, etc.

My only complaint is that buildings tend to be spaced too far apart for a medieval town. So, while I readily use it for villages, I hesitate to use it for any sizable, walled town.

Also, the auto-generated populations are not ideal for my world, but you can create your own files with names, races, items, prices, etc.

 

[gloranphile]

I agree with MNBlockHead, Cityographer is a great program with few bells and whistles. If you spend the time, you can actually create your own source info with names, types of buildings, races, etc. that can make your newly-created city uniquely yours.

 

[Dark Lord Galen]

I also just purchased Cityographer, a java program that will generate a villeage, town, or city in just one click. ..............Also, the auto-generated populations are not ideal for my world, but you can create your own files with names, races, items, prices, etc.

I agree with MNBlockHead, Cityographer is a great program with few bells and whistles. If you spend the time, you can actually create your own source info with names, types of buildings, races, etc. that can make your newly-created city uniquely yours.

I also agree, Joe at inkwell Ideas has a good gap filler (as MHBlockhead suggests) for the random spot encounter. I often use it as a template for a more permanent version if I think its a place the PCs may venture back to.
The other products (dungeongrapher & heraldry creator) are also pretty good, and some utilize the random dice he offers as well, though I cannot comment on that since I don't use them.

As MHBlockhead suggests it is improved with modifications suited to your world.

for those following along not familiar with InkwellIdeas
see here>
http://inkwellideas.com/

 

[gloranphile]

Also, if you do go ahead with InkwellIdeas' Cityographer, be sure to check out the sub-reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/inkwellideas, as there's some good info in there.

 

[Dark Lord Galen]

Thanks Gloranphile good tip had not noticed that.... I see MNBlockhead already found it!

 

[eponette]

...<snip>

DLG

My Drop Box Link
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hzvxrqma1wqfves/dc3silverinstall.exe?dl=0

Thanks DLG for the software.

Some questions :

I cannot save (but I can export) the map.
I cannot undo (or erase)
How to add tiles (the number of default tiles are limited)

Cheers

 

[Dark Lord Galen]

Thanks DLG for the software.

No problem, but thanks really goes to Colen and LWD for allowing the Post & Shardgames for inventing.... shame they seem to have fell off the planet. It would have been interesting to see where this program would be now more than ten years later.

Some questions :

1>I cannot save (but I can export) the map.
2>I cannot undo (or erase)
3>How to add tiles (the number of default tiles are limited)

Cheers

In reverse order
3> under tools / Options/ this brings up a Dialog Box that shows the paths for each folder. I created additional "tile" by addingto these folders. I don't have the program in front of me at the moment but I believe it sees both PNG and Jpeg (PNG would be preferred) I found various textures for floors and wall simply by cutting and pasting photos I like parts of from the net and saved them at the scale I desired. IT requires a bit of tinkering but for a quick easy dungeon without a high learning curve such as CC its not so bad.

2> Right-clicking (with mouse) on the tile inserted will remove it.

1> yep that's the drawback.. remember when this was created VTT and digital were pretty much dreams of the future. so most media was hard copy.
To steer around this I use snipit to take a screen shot and then dump into another program to finalize it.. if you wish to simply save it, Cute PDF is another approach. IT mimics a printer and turns the Print Q into a PDF see here.
http://www.cutepdf.com/Products/CutePDF/writer.asp

Hope that helps
DLG

 

[Parody]

I cannot save (but I can export) the map.

Wow...poking around on archive.org, they just never wrote saving/loading into the app. (Not having ever heard of this program before, I was wondering if it was a limitation of the free version, which is pretty common.)

remember when this was created VTT and digital were pretty much dreams of the future. so most media was hard copy.

Save/load has nothing to do with hard copy, VTTs, or era of a program and everything to do with being able to come back later and edit/update or reuse something you've already created in its original form. It also allows you to test with known sample files. It's a weird thing to skip. ::shrug::

 

[Dark Lord Galen]

Wow...poking around on archive.org, they just never wrote saving/loading into the app. (Not having ever heard of this program before, I was wondering if it was a limitation of the free version, which is pretty common.)

While true it was (and is common) to not allow saving or printing for a beta or a free trial type, in this case I don't think there was ever a "pro or full version" as it was originally released as a community freeware.. and that is what I was referring to for the era. Meaning it predates most VTT / digital Map type softwares of today.

So respectfully disagree to this below. In the context that it was indeed intended for a print only application use without consideration for saving or VTT in the present form of tech available now... To further add to this, if it were only a test type as you suggest, it is unlikely they would allow for the import of additional files to add to the base program and as to being able to "come back to the original form created" (As you suggest), if you mean a blank then yes because it doesn't retain anything you create from "session to session". From a programmer perspective, who can say, they are not here to divulge what was in there mind at the time .... I just know its been round over fifteen years as versions 1 & 2 (and ten for this version under discussion). hope that clarifies.

Save/load has nothing to do with hard copy, VTTs, or era of a program and everything to do with being able to come back later and edit/update or reuse something you've already created in its original form. It also allows you to test with known sample files. It's a weird thing to skip. ::shrug::

General Note the first two renditions were horribly archaic (think Atari type graphics), this was their attempt at taking advantage of the new hardware available in its day.

 

[Parody]

While true it was (and is common) to not allow saving or printing for a beta or a free trial type, in this case I don't think there was ever a "pro or full version" as it was originally released as a community freeware.

Which I didn't know, so I went poking around to see what it was you were distributing.

In the context that it was indeed intended for a print only application use without consideration for saving ...

Which, to me, is an extremely poor design decision. Saving to protect yourself from being interrupted in your work, wanting to back up your work in an editable form, and such are primary concerns for creative applications.

It's unfortunate that they didn't put more emphasis on this feature, but it's too late now.

... in the present form of tech available now.

Saving in a native file format (which is what I've been talking about) is not new tech. The version of the app you're redistributing was released in 2007. I have painting programs from the 80s (in my case, on the Commodore 64) that can save their graphics so you can load and edit them again later.


Hopefully this explains where I was coming from. Sorry I wandered so far off-topic.

 

[MNBlockHead]

Thanks Gloranphile good tip had not noticed that.... I see MNBlockhead already found it!

I have to say, though, that the Reddit forum for Inkwell ideas is pretty dead. Lots of good questions from users met with the sound of crickets. This may be in part because it is such new software that all users are new and there is not yet a large enough body of experience users to share knowledge. This makes it that much more important for the developers to become engaged.

Really makes me appreciate LWD's forums.

 

[gloranphile]

I have to say, though, that the Reddit forum for Inkwell ideas is pretty dead.

I've noticed that lately as well. I think the mod (I believe the owner of Inkwell) was great at first, but it's slacked quite a bit.

 

[MNBlockHead]

I've noticed that lately as well. I think the mod (I believe the owner of Inkwell) was great at first, but it's slacked quite a bit.

The Reddit forum is pretty dead. The support material is lacking. Also, I'm finding Cityographer to be not only poorly supported but just not stable. I'm having it hang on a 250 population village with fewer roads than I have fingers. I can manipulate huge and complicated maps in Campaign Cartographer without issues. My initial enthusiasm for Cityographer has quickly sunk to buyer's remorse and I would caution anyone to sink money into it until it becomes more stable and when it is clear that there is real support behind it.

I'm still really hoping to get it to work for me, however, because the concept is great. It would be an incredible aid for generating the hundreds or even thousands of villages dotting a realm.

 

[Dark Lord Galen]

The Reddit forum is pretty dead. The support material is lacking.
I'm still really hoping to get it to work for me, however, because the concept is great. It would be an incredible aid for generating the hundreds or even thousands of villages dotting a realm.

Agree on the Owner response till I managed to dig up his personal email. That made it marginally better. It seems to be (And no insult to LWD in particular) a collective problem with smaller companies being understaffed to deal with customer direct issues. I have dealings with several and would categorize companies by various factors. Customer Trouble shooting, Customer question response, Meeting Deliverables, etc.
Inkwell is in the top 5 of the list (as it relates to failed customer response) with D20pro & LWD somewhere in the middle. Again, it's probably related to available staff / time constraints. Just the nature of the industry at the time.

D20 Pro & LW have a lot in common when it comes to this comparison. Both are better than average at customer trouble shooting and LW leads question reply and both have trouble defining true deliverable timing. Inkwell is almost the reverse.

Reaper (a Texas company by the way) & Chessex are IMO some of the best, but again, both are quite abit larger than the ones mentioned above. Certainly Hazbro/WOC is one of the collective worst. So there is a point where the company can be too small to fit its needs (as is the case for LWD) and conversely (in WOC) can be so large they don't care.

Also, I'm finding Cityographer to be not only poorly supported but just not stable. I'm having it hang on a 250 population village with fewer roads than I have fingers..................My initial enthusiasm for Cityographer has quickly sunk to buyer's remorse and I would caution anyone to sink money into it until it becomes more stable and when it is clear that there is real support behind it.

Humm, curious, I have not experienced any of that... my complaints are more along the short comings,

• Compress building density in large cities
• a more usable export system for the various building random populating
• the ability to tell it what type of village I want.. ie maybe I don't want a human village, I want an orc one (the populations can be percentaged, but the buildings themselves cant)

I've never experienced a hang problem. maybe the assigned ram?
Im no Inkwell tech, lol

just my 2cp
DLG

 

[Dark Lord Galen]

Which I didn't know, so I went poking around to see what it was you were distributing.

I don't know if I'd choose the word "distribute", but to each his own.. I was simply asked where it could be found and discovered they took a trip to mercury I guess. [/quote]

For myself, distribute is suggesting I have more involvement (ie I profit from it, provide tech support, etc) than I am providing. So for any, the link provided, as stated before, is for your own convenience I have no affiliation nor desire to be a representative for Shardgames.

Which, to me, is an extremely poor design decision. Saving to protect yourself from being interrupted in your work, wanting to back up your work in an editable form, and such are primary concerns for creative applications.

It's unfortunate that they didn't put more emphasis on this feature, but it's too late now.

I don't disagree, but it was not considered a "Rarity" for sidebar programmers to leave off chunks either thru no desire to complete, a beta version, etc, as you suggested earlier.. And yea it's a shame, and a mute point at this juncture. But for all its warts, it is a very easy / cheap one shot use.

Saving in a native file format (which is what I've been talking about) is not new tech. The version of the app you're redistributing was released in 2007. I have painting programs from the 80s (in my case, on the Commodore 64) that can save their graphics so you can load and edit them again later.

I get what you were implying, and think we are both saying t he same thing from opposite sides of the same fence. As to the program, It was available as early as 2003.

As to comparing "old programs" there is no fruit to gain there other than to prove we are both gurnards. Because like you, I have a Commodore 64, TI99-4A and had owned a "trash80". So your not the only collector of archaic software that "We" still employ.

Hopefully this explains where I was coming from. Sorry I wandered so far off-topic.

And like you state above, to you and the community didn't mean to wander off..

To steer us back to the topic,
Another good 3d wireframe type is World Machine. Its approach is quite different and the learning curve is HIGH but it produces great outdoor maps to use as a baseline for adding other clipart and getting a pro result.

Just my 2cp
DLG

http://www.world-machine.com/download.php

 

[MNBlockHead]

I've never experienced a hang problem. maybe the assigned ram?
Im no Inkwell tech, lol

I turned out to be an issue with just one map. I'm not sure what happened, but I just started over and have not had an issue.

 

[Madmaxneo]

All those mentioned are great programs. CC3 is probably the most versatile in the fact that it has so many add ons and there is so much you can do with it. Unfortunately it is expensive and if you want to take advantage of all it has to offer then it gets extremely expensive. There is a learning curve for just about any mapping program out there. But the easiest for me to learn was Dundjinni and it is a great program with many free add ons. I have used it to put maps on my TV along with a fog of war overlay so that the players could only see what their characters could see. If you have any graphics program experience then I would recommend Xara photo and graphic designer. I have used that to re-draw some maps of poor quality then use those maps in Maptools (or now Mote) to great effect. Even if you don't have any graphics programming experience it is much easier to learn than the other programs and there are literally terabytes of textures and images you can use to create any kind of map. Not to forget the loads of help you can get from forums like the Cartographers Guild, or the Xara graphics forums which not only has people willing to help you learn how to use the program but have loads of free maps. BTW, if your patient you can usually catch Xara Photo and Graphic designer 10 for around $39 and it usually gets to about half that during the holidays at the end of the year. I have developed a couple of maps in Xara but I haven't worked on any maps in awhile but that is going to change now that I will be using Realm Works for my current campaign.

 

[Alarian]

While I used to use Campaign Cartographer quite a bit and have pretty much everything profantasy has ever produced, I have not reinvested in the latest version (3) and most likely won't.

I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned yet, but for the past few years I've been pretty much exclusively using google to find maps and such that have been done by others and using them in my game. There is so much stuff out there that's as good or better than I can do that's already available to use for free. Tons of modules have web versions done already that I can just import into MapTool (my VTT of choice) and it saves me so much time. It would be extremely rare that I would create an encounter that must look "exactly like this". I just look through my already gathered collection first looking for something I think might work and if that fails, head onto google and do a bit of foo magic. There are tons and tons of villages, cities, dungeons, wilderness encounter sites, ruins you name it that I feel like I'm better off now days using my time to work on the encounters and use some of the stuff others have done.

 

[Madmaxneo]

Yes there are loads of free images online. So much so that one would never have to create their own content and still have somewhat of an original world. I have downloaded many many maps over the course of the last few years. But I also want to create my own maps and re-do some in the world I am using (Mithra for HARP). Once you learn a program it can be very fun to layout an entire world, city, or dungeon of your own design. Programs like CC3, Dundjinni, Inkwell, Xara, and loads of others are for those that have a specific vision and would like to see it laid for all to see (or at least their players).

FYI, years ago they came out with the entire world of Forgotten Realms for CC2. I still have that program and it is very useful for those that still use that setting. It is a great product though I am not even sure if it is still available. That same functionality is available through Realm Works but it takes time to input all the links and what not. Now all they need is a global view with regular links instead of pins that can rotate.....

Bruce

 

[Paragon]

I make use of other's maps when possible, but often I have rather specific needs and just have to do it myself. Sometimes its also the case where the extent maps have grids that I don't want.