Managing Plot Point content

[adzling]

Hokay some questions for the vets here related to managing content for Plots and Plot Points.

1). It would seem that the content formatting tools (font, color etc) are not available in the Plot and Plot Point areas. Is this intentional, an omission or am I doing it wrong?

2). It would seem that there is no way to add Snippets to the Plot Points or create a default Snippet layout for the Plot Points. This is confusing as it is possible to do this anywhere else in Realmworks. Again, is this intentional, an omission or am I doing it wrong?

3). What is the utility of the "Scene" object under "Events" in the main world almanac? Isn't a "Scene" another way to say "Plot Point"? Again, is this intentional, an omission or am I doing it wrong?

4). All of the above makes me think I am doing something wrong.
I had assumed that an adventure was driven by Plot Points and the GM would reveal various elements of a Plot Point to the players as they progress. It now seems that Realmworks is not really setup to manage adventure content through Plot Points as there is no method to enter new discreet Snippets into Plot Points directly (you can only attach content to a Plot Point, not Snippets).
Again, is this intentional, an omission or am I doing it wrong?

Thanks, as a beginning user of Realmworks it's hard to get a grip on the intent of how this is meant to be used as there is very little guidance and it is unclear what is intentional, what is unfinished and what is an omission.

 

[davidp]

The intent is that plot points provide a brief overview of information and then link to a topic or a subplot that provides the full details. In the case of a subplot, it can then contain a full complement of plot points.

1) This is intentional at this time. With plot points edited in a separate dialog and the intention that plot points would contain a brief overview of information, it was deemed that plain text would be appropriate to start.

2) Snippets are ONLY associated with a topic. Plots and plot points do not contain snippets.

3) A Scene topic can contain the details for a plot point and then be associated to the plot point. A plot point can be associated with a topic or a subplot.

4) Realm Works is set up to manage adventure content through Plot Points in conjunction with topics.

 

[Derfel]

You can associate topics with a plot point. Think of every plot point as a snippet, either a simple text or a link you can hide/reveal.
So you can create a "Scene" (or character, quest, location etc.) topic and associate a plot point with it to create a link.

 

[adzling]

thanks for your replies, very helpful.

So to paraphrase the idea is that Plots and Plot Points are merely visual reference tools to associate content, they are not in and of themselves content Topics.
Is this correct?

A typical adventure would have a Plot with Plot Points and have Scenes (and possibly other content) associated with each Plot Point.
Is this correct?

This would enable the GM to share content with players by revealing individual Snippets of Scenes associated with the Plot Points, correct?

While I can understand the above (if true, please correct me if i'm wrong!) it seems rather odd that this wasn't all just directly available within the Plot Point.
Is there a rational for having separate "Scenes" unassociated with Plot Points?

I'm still having a hard time understanding how this is meant to be used in play.
Generally speaking as a beginner it's very hard to grok how this app is meant to be used in play, how to use all the features in concert to create a sensible and usable adventure and separating Scenes from Plot Points is very counter-intuitive.

Where does the GM "live" during play?
I had assumed (being a visual person) that the Plot and Plot Points would be the natural place to run the adventure from as it gives the GM a holistic overview of where the players are and where they could go next.

Now it seems I was mistaken.

 

[Farling]

The Storyboard provides the GM with a way of viewing the relationship of the separate components of the story.

The players won't necessarily know how the plot points are linked together, so their view would just be the scenes (plot points) which they have uncovered during the running of the campaign.

You can provide a very brief summary of a plot point directly in the plot view if you like, but any further breakdown into more detail will require the use of a scene topic.

The World Builder's Guide (PDF available from the Manual page on the Help ribbon) provides a section (1.1.4) which shows how a world builder can start work from the storyboard.

 

[adzling]

Thanks Farling I will look that up.

So the main method for associating details to a Plot Point would be to create a Scene Topic and associate it.
Got it!

 

[davidp]

Also, the plot itself can be used for navigation. When it is used for navigation, the plot moves into the left pane and the plot points that are associated with topics (or plots) can then be clicked on to load up the associated topic (or plot) in the right content area.

 

[ThatOneMike]

I highly recommend you watch at least the first of these tutorial videos: http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=51602

They are short but sweet and really helped me find a niche for storyboards in my games. I use them now all the time as a way to organize my planning and as a high-level guide for running my sessions.

 

[davidp]

Here's an example of having the plot for navigation and seeing the topics associated with plot points:

 

[Chemlak]

Where does the GM "live" during play?
I had assumed (being a visual person) that the Plot and Plot Points would be the natural place to run the adventure from as it gives the GM a holistic overview of where the players are and where they could go next.

When I play, I typically have a few tabs open:

1) Storyboard, so I can get back and forth to it easily.
2) Current location (usually a city or town for my games, but since you play Shadowrun, whatever part of town the characters start in).
3) Current Scene, so that I have quick links to all relevant topics.
4+) NPCs in the scene, so that I can view their statblocks and other topic information.

With that setup, I can easily switch tabs and reveal information, and for everything else there's MasterCard... Err, there's CTRL+Q.

When you switch scene, spend a minute closing and opening tabs - it works best if you can do it while describing things to to the players, so as not to break the flow of the game, but no one's likely to begrudge a few seconds here and there, and pretty soon you'll come up with your way of hopping around to make it seamless.

 

[adzling]

Hmm it seems like there is an arbitrary limit on the # of characters in each Plot Point text box.

This greatly limits the utility of those text boxes, nothing fits!

I can see now that they are only really useful as a visual flow-chart to hang content off and little else.

That's rather saddening and adds complexity.
Why not just let the GM assign Snippets to a Plot Point directly?


Moving on, how does this stuff get revealed to the players?

Do you reveal the Plot Point and then reveal the Scene or other content associated with it?

Do you have to reveal the Plot Point to reveal the associated content?

This would all be resolved by just embedding the Snippets directly into the Plot Points.

 

[adzling]

thanks Chemlak this helps greatly.

When I play, I typically have a few tabs open:

1) Storyboard, so I can get back and forth to it easily.
2) Current location (usually a city or town for my games, but since you play Shadowrun, whatever part of town the characters start in).
3) Current Scene, so that I have quick links to all relevant topics.
4+) NPCs in the scene, so that I can view their statblocks and other topic information.

With that setup, I can easily switch tabs and reveal information, and for everything else there's MasterCard... Err, there's CTRL+Q.

When you switch scene, spend a minute closing and opening tabs - it works best if you can do it while describing things to to the players, so as not to break the flow of the game, but no one's likely to begrudge a few seconds here and there, and pretty soon you'll come up with your way of hopping around to make it seamless.

 

[adzling]

So now that I have a Scene Topic associated with a Plot Point I notice that the Plot Point text boxes are no longer visible.
When I click on the Plot Point itself it pushes me to the associated Scene.

This is confusing and contradictory, why have text boxes on the Plot Point if they are inaccessible once you associate a Scene to the Plot Point?

Man this interface is driving me nuts.

 

[Chemlak]

Hmm it seems like there is an arbitrary limit on the # of characters in each Plot Point text box.

This greatly limits the utility of those text boxes, nothing fits!

Guess time: 127, 255, or 511 characters.

I can see now that they are only really useful as a visual flow-chart to hang content off and little else.

Think of the storyboard as just a flowchart, nothing more. It's a reminder/pointer of what you planned the plot to look like, to help you know what's coming next. It's an extremely valuable tool, but is itself only a tiny part of an adventure. The real meat is in topics.

Why not just let the GM assign Snippets to a Plot Point directly?

Fair question, and I suspect the answer is because the storyboard is meant to work exactly like the storyboard for a movie: it's a visual representation of how all of the different bits of the adventure hang together, without much detail.

To extend the movie analogy a little, at the end of Star Wars: A New Hope, there's the award ceremony.

On a storyboard, that's one plot point: Award Ceremony.

In the scene, you have characters present (yes, including R2D2), the fact that Chewbacca doesn't get a medal, what each character is wearing, Leia's new hairstyle, and a gazillion other details that would just crowd the storyboard.

Moving on, how does this stuff get revealed to the players?

Do you reveal the Plot Point and then reveal the Scene or other content associated with it?

I only reveal plot points when that plot element is completely resolved.

Do you have to reveal the Plot Point to reveal the associated content?

Heavens, no! That would be awful. Remember, you can associate a plot point with any topic of any type, so it could be a scene, a place, a person, even an item. Their reveal state is independent.

This would all be resolved by just embedding the Snippets directly into the Plot Points.

While this makes sense if you are associating scenes, if you have a "Find the Maguffin" plot point associated with the item topic "The Maguffin", you probably don't want to have every single snippet for The Maguffin attached to the plot point. (Remember, in Star Wars, the small thermal exhaust port right above the main port is actually a plot point.)

If I'm following this all correctly, I think you have a very narrow view of what plot points are. They do not have to be just scenes. In my last game, I had a plot point that was, well, it had a slightly rude name that I won't repeat here, which was associated with a small woodland clearing, because the clearing was actually the important bit, not the scene when the PCs got there.

 

[adzling]

Thanks Chemlak your comments are really helping.

So I have always viewed a point on a Plot Point type flow-chart as an important element in an adventure that is almost universally a Scene where the players do something.

I am having a hard time understanding why you would not embed the majority of your Scene info as Snippets directly into the Plot Point.

Sure you will have characters, items, buildings and such that are represented in the World Almanac and associated with the Plot Point (i.e. your Macguffin example) but I can't think of an example where you would have a Plot Point but no player activity that needs moderating.

 

[adzling]

This feels like late November when you pull the box of tangled up and partially working xmas lights out of storage and have to spend a few hours trying to untangle them, figure out which ones work and then determine how to daisychain them so they can all work together in the right layout.

I am starting to understand how this can be a really helpful tool to manage PnP campaigns but man the interface is really not doing it's job.

It's just a bunch of spaghetti like plumbing.

It feels like I'm fighting this interface the entire way, it's almost like it does not want me to be able to get stuff in easily, adding in unneeded complexity and inconsistencies at every turn.

 

[Redjack]

I've created a custom sub category of Scene for Shadowrun Scenes.

Several observations:
- Linking scenes to plot points seems somewhat superfluous. Perhaps if I better understood the options or thinking of the designer I might understand what seems like an extra step.
- The box text object options is completely manual for each iteration. I'd like to see options to create a custom snippet of that object. It would be a bonus if "Box Text" (currently a 'GM Direction') could either be converted to a non-editable label or removed all together in lieu of a border. Also setting default font options would be a bonus as well.

More comments to come as I continue to implement one of the missions I wrote as a scene.

 

[Derfel]

I don't always use scenes as plot-points like a scripted movie. I prefer to prep situations. I link plot-points to characters, locations, quests and all kinds of topics accordingly. That extra step is necessary for GM's like me. I am glad Realm Works doesn't force me to use a specific kind of plot-point.

 

[MNBlockHead]

Like Derfel, I often link a plot point to a location, which can be a building, a city, or an adventure area. While I can see how some users would want the option to set a default topic type to link it to, I personaly would like to continue having the option to select a specific topic type.