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Making Monsters

H

hooly

Active member
Something very embarassing happened last night which almost resulted in a TPK due to Herolab. And I feel bad.

I want to fix the problem but I'm not sure if there is a tutorial on it.

THE ISSUE
I am running Legacy of Fire (which is 3.5) and I tried to create the Giant Mamba which is in Kelmarane. The creature isn't in Pathfinder rule books, and so I have to create it from a Venomous Snake. I gave it two HD, and two size adjustments (to take it to Huge). I then ran the stats as per the Herolab. Ouch.

THE PROBELMS
1) Increasing the size of a creature in HL doesn't increase its CR. Which it should.
2) The Poison DC is slightly off I believe.

I also tried the make with a constrictor, and the damage that the creature does is also the damage it does using constrict. Now there is a throwaway line in the Bestiary that says that "typically the creature's constrict damage is usually its normal damage", and so this is what HL uses.

Thoughts? Is there a tutorial on creating monsters and advancing monsters in Herolab?
 
For creating a moster you can go to the editor and use the race tab. You should be able to copy the snake (although some races are restricted and then you have to enter in all the information yourself).
 
Actually, unlike 3.5, there are no explicit rules in Pathfinder for how the CR changes when you add HD and change the size of a monster. So, on the adjust tab, you'll find the "CR" adjustment in the "Other Adjustments" table.

You'll have to be more specific about the poison DC - what are you seeing? What were you expecting to see? What calculations would go into that?
 
So the CR increase has to be done manually then? The issue wasn't so much to do with the poison because mistakenly I used the wrong monster anyway - as I used a constrictor. As that was doing "one shots" against the characters with 1d8+16 for the bite AND the constriction. This in itself made it a CR5 I think instead of the C3 or CR4 it was supposed to be.

Here is what I did specifically:

1) I took the Snake, Constrictor (CR2) as a stock creature.
2) I then gave it two HD which is what increased it to a CR4
3) I then gave it two size increases to make it huge

Using HL, it gave me the damage I mentioned above. Needless to say my party of APL 3.75 (5 x level 3 characters) got their collective asses handed to them.

In hindsight it might be a "me" thing rather than a "HL" thing, but its disturbing none-the-less. The moster I should have made was this:

Snake, Venomous ( +2HD Giant x2 ) CR 4
XP 1200
N Huge animal
Init +3; Senses low-light vision, scent; Perception +9

DEFENSE
AC 16, touch 7, flat-footed 7 (-1 Dex, +9 natural, -2 size)
hp 47 (4d8+29)
Fort +9, Ref +2, Will +1;

OFFENSE
Speed 20 ft., climb 20 ft., swim 20 ft.
Melee bite +9 (1d8+7 plus poison)
Space 15 ft.Reach 15 ft.

STATISTICS
Str 24, Dex 9, Con 22, Int 1, Wis 13, Cha 2;
Base Atk 2; CMB 7; CMD 16
Feats Improved Initiative, Weapon FinesseB
Skills Acrobatics +7, Climb +13, Perception +9, Stealth -1, Swim +13; Racial Modifiers +4 Perception, +4 Stealth, +8 Acrobatics; modifies Climb and Swim with Dexterity

ECOLOGY
Environment any temperate or warm
Organization solitary, pair, or nest (3-8)
Treasure none

SPECIAL ABILITIES
Poison (Ex) Bite-injury; save Fort DC 13; frequency 1/round for 6 rounds; effect 1d2 Con; cure 1 save.

Instead I got this:

--------------------
SNAKE, CONSTRICTOR CR 4
Male Snake, Constrictor
NN Huge Animal
Init +1; Senses Low-Light Vision, Scent; Perception +12
--------------------
DEFENSE
--------------------
AC 16, touch 9, flat-footed 15 (+1 Dex, -2 size, +7 natural)
hp 52 (3d8+30)
Fort +9, Ref +5, Will +2
--------------------
OFFENSE
--------------------
Spd 20 ft., Climbing (20 feet), Swimming (20 feet)
Melee Bite (Snake, Constrictor) +12 (1d8+16/20/x2) and
Constrict (Snake, Constrictor) +12 (1d8+16/20/x2) and
Unarmed Strike +12 (1d6+11/20/x2)
Space 15 ft.; Reach 15 ft.
Special Attacks Grab (DC 2)
--------------------
STATISTICS
--------------------
Str 33, Dex 13, Con 20, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 2
Base Atk +3; CMB +16 (+20 Grappling); CMD 27 (can't be Tripped)
Feats Ability Focus: Grab, Skill Focus: Perception, Toughness +5
Skills Acrobatics +13, Climb +19, Fly -3, Perception +12, Stealth +3, Swim +19
Languages

--------------------
ECOLOGY
--------------------
Environment Warm forests, swamps, and fresh water
Organization Solitary or nest (2-6)
Treasure None
--------------------
SPECIAL ABILITIES
--------------------
Climbing (20 feet) You have a Climb speed.
Grab (Large) (DC 2) (Ex) You can start a grapple as a free action if you hit with the designated weapon.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in low light, distinguishing color and detail.
Scent (Ex) Detect opponents within 15+ feet by sense of smell.
Swimming (20 feet) You have a Swim speed.

Ouch.
 
How did the strength of the new monster get as high as 33?

When I add 2 copies of "Size Increase" to "Snake, Venomous", I only end up with a strength of 24.
 
Hooly, when i get home tonight i'll see about creating a file for this monster and sending it to you. it should be easy enough to do in the editor. I will use the infomration below:

Snake, Venomous ( +2HD Giant x2 ) CR 4
XP 1200
N Huge animal
Init +3; Senses low-light vision, scent; Perception +9

DEFENSE
AC 16, touch 7, flat-footed 7 (-1 Dex, +9 natural, -2 size)
hp 47 (4d8+29)
Fort +9, Ref +2, Will +1;

OFFENSE
Speed 20 ft., climb 20 ft., swim 20 ft.
Melee bite +9 (1d8+7 plus poison)
Space 15 ft.Reach 15 ft.

STATISTICS
Str 24, Dex 9, Con 22, Int 1, Wis 13, Cha 2;
Base Atk 2; CMB 7; CMD 16
Feats Improved Initiative, Weapon FinesseB
Skills Acrobatics +7, Climb +13, Perception +9, Stealth -1, Swim +13; Racial Modifiers +4 Perception, +4 Stealth, +8 Acrobatics; modifies Climb and Swim with Dexterity

ECOLOGY
Environment any temperate or warm
Organization solitary, pair, or nest (3-8)
Treasure none

SPECIAL ABILITIES
Poison (Ex) Bite-injury; save Fort DC 13; frequency 1/round for 6 rounds; effect 1d2 Con; cure 1 save.
 
I am pretty sure the main problem was starting with snake, constrictor instead of snake, venomous.

constrictor starts as a CR 2 with STR 17 - and the bumps take it to 33
venomous starts as a CR 1 with STR 8 - and the bumps take it to 24

That accounts for the huge difference in damage at the table. If you were expecting a poison-user, and got a squeeze-user, you certainly were in for a surprise. With the 2 size increases and an addition of 16 STR, you made quite the grapple-monster.

Adding the Giant template twice took the constrictor from a CR of 2 to a CR of 4 all by itself. Adding 2 HD probably took you very close to a CR 6, because the base snake is a pretty high-end CR 2.
 
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hey Hooly, send a private message to me with your email address and i will send along the snake i made from the description you provided. thanks.
 
Making a 12 Level Agathion Daconal

I am so lost I'm in another plane.... I can't seem to get HL to create a 12 Level Draconal (as a similcrum) using the editor.

Could anyone help me.
 
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