M&M 3rd ed. Lower Attributes.

[Scholz]

I wanted to create an Alternate Form that had some lower stats. Specifically Intellect. How can I do that? Enhanced Attribute and Enhanced Trait won't let me put in Negative numbers to lower a number.

 

[Duggan]

Check the options for the character. I want to say there's an optional setting to allow reducing traits via Enhanced Trait. I know there is for 2E.

 

[FifthWanderer]

It's under Enhanced Trait. You can apply negative attributes there. Just pick Intellect as the trait you want to modify, then click the left arrow.

 

[jbearwillis]

Yes that is true on how to lower it but for some reason it cost one point no matter how low you lower it. but the var. power lets you lower it and gives you points back.

 

[Nigel Fogg The Wayfarer]

Yes that is true on how to lower it but for some reason it cost one point no matter how low you lower it. but the var. power lets you lower it and gives you points back.

That may be a hold-over from 2nd Edition where I pointed out to Colen that the M&M rules say that a power, no matter how many Power Drawbacks & Power Flaws you might layer onto it, can never cost less than 1 power point.

No free (or power point generating) lunch for the player characters.

Is this no longer true (yeah, my group is still playing 2nd Edition in the primary campaign with an additional campaign starting up this Saturday that will also use 2nd Edition so I've had no reason to dive into the new ruleset) in 3rd Edition?

Nigel Fogg, aka The Wayfarer

 

[CelticREI]

Small Necro: A quick work around for this is to add something in the -same- Enhanced Trait which costs exactly how much the negative gives back (say -2 Int, +2 Awe, or -2 Int, +4 to a skill) and it should make it cost 0pp.

 

[CLBeilby]

This is a definite issue, guys. The Enhanced Trait power does include the Reduced Trait flaw (DCA Pg 97, not sure what page in the M&M3 Heroes Handbook,) with no way to implement it in Hero Lab. I've a player who's built a Clayface type Character for a DC PBP, and I can't get this into my Master portfolio.

 

[JDRook]

That is an issue. I remember having that problem with Clayface myself. As a workaround, I just applied a custom -3 flat flaw to one of the other Hard Body effects to get the math right.

 

[Colen]

The text of Reduced Trait says:

"One or more of your traits is lowered while others are enhanced. This flaw is worth as many points as the reduction in the affected trait(s). So, for example, if you lose Intellect while you gain in Strength, treat the value of the lost Intellect ranks as the value of the flaw. As with all flaws, the effect must still cost at least 1 power point."

Isn't that how Hero Lab works right now? You can add to one trait while reducing another, but the total effect must still cost at least 1 point.

 

[Duggan]

I think the argument is that it would be useful to allow straight reductions of traits as an exception to "must cost at least 1 pp" so that someone with an Alternate Form that's less agile can simply say that their Dexterity is -4 when in the form instead of having to find a counter-balancing trait to pair it up with, assuming there is one. I'd be fine with it being a custom extra or the like which lets one ignore the "at least 1 pp" rule.

 

[Colen]

Adding this as an optional rule seems reasonable. I'll put this on our to-do list.