Kickstarter Clarification Questions

[Griffonbait]

Hi all,

While new to this forum, I have been a product user since Army Builder 2. I don't have a Kickstarter account, nor a Facebook account to ask these questions. If the devs/managers monitor these forums it would be good to hear information from people who actually know what is going on.

Months ago I was initially skeptical about the benefits of Realm Works (RW) over what I currently use (OneNote), however, I was taken aback by the Kickstarter video presentation and the features displayed that I am now a convert and looking forward to using RW.

A couple of questions that will not stop me from buying RW when it does come out.

1. Will an Alpha Wolf backer, who receives top tier cloud service for the life of the account, expect to pay any costs associated with the cloud service over the life of their account? (By costs I mean things like: subscription costs, upgrade costs to improved/additional services in the future, data storage costs associated with the amount of data stored on the cloud service's HDDs, etc.)

2. No mention has been given to costs associated with major/minor version releases in the future. Do you provide unlimited lifetime upgrades of the Realm Works product for all who purchase it or are all Kickstarter backer levels expected to pay for future software releases or are you looking at a licensing plan similar to ArmyBuilder?

Cheers,
Griffonbait

 

[rob]

We're here for exactly the purpose you posted.

Now on to your questions...

1. Alpha Wolf backers are essentially pre-paying for everything. So the product itself is included and top-tier cloud support is included. I guess it's theoretically possible for someone to want more storage or bandwidth than we'll include at the top tier, in which case there could be additional charges for that, but I'm sure not expecting that to occur. In addition, the Alpha Wolf backer level doesn't necessarily include everything we might think of adding in the future, which leads to your second point.

2. We don't envision charging for updates to the core Realm Works product itself, even though we'll continue evolving the product well into the future. That being said, there are some major components planned that would be separate add-ons available for purchase. For example, we have a mapping tool on the drawing board that we'd love to create. It would work in conjunction with Realm Works, but it would be a separate product that could be purchased by those who wanted it. Features that are integral to the core utilization of Realm Works will be included in free updates. Major components might be split out as separate options.

The business (i.e. revenue) model for Realm Works is vastly different from Army Builder and Hero Lab, so the licensing and sales models will be very different as well. I hope the above answers make sense. If not, please let me know where you still have questions and I'll do my best to answer them.

Hope this helps!

 

[Griffonbait]

Thanks for the update.

Your description of the mapping program makes perfect sense. It is comparative to say, MS Word and Excel, neither program does the same job as the other, but they do share information between them rather well.

Well, this is getting all exciting and I can't wait to see just how much Realm Works will improve my in-game organisation and response time to players needs/wants.

Cheers.

 

[Asandir]

Still debating pledging for this. Really interesting product from what it looks like. I wanted to follow up on an answer posted on Kickstarter.

"We've already prototyped additional capabilities including the GM's machine operating as a local web server for players to access with their tablets or what-not. This type of capability is absolutely planned for the future and is an example of some of the cool features we'll be unveiling as part of stretch goals."

Would it be possible to run this on a Windows Home Server 2011 and allow it to serve as the local web server? This presumes that the tablet and what-nots are connected to the home network, correct?

 

[rob]

"We've already prototyped additional capabilities including the GM's machine operating as a local web server for players to access with their tablets or what-not. This type of capability is absolutely planned for the future and is an example of some of the cool features we'll be unveiling as part of stretch goals."

Would it be possible to run this on a Windows Home Server 2011 and allow it to serve as the local web server? This presumes that the tablet and what-nots are connected to the home network, correct?

We won't be providing users with the ability to run their own server with client syncing and the like. That will be handled through the Realm Works cloud server only.

The approach we've prototyped is for the GM's computer to behave as a simple web server during play. Player devices can then retrieve material directly from the GM's computer over a local internet connection. This provides live updates to players during the game without the need to access the Realm Works cloud server, which might be unavailable due to venue limitations (e.g. horribly slow speeds at a hotel during a Con or expensive 3G/4G access being cost-prohibitive).

 

[Fox Lee]

The approach we've prototyped is for the GM's computer to behave as a simple web server during play. Player devices can then retrieve material directly from the GM's computer over a local internet connection. This provides live updates to players during the game without the need to access the Realm Works cloud server, which might be unavailable due to venue limitations (e.g. horribly slow speeds at a hotel during a Con or expensive 3G/4G access being cost-prohibitive).

Hullo, I never knew that was in the works! Since not all players have access to the network where my group games, this is an incredibly exciting feature to me Is this amongst the goals that need the Kickstarter, then, or is it part of the core plan?

 

[freeAgent]

We won't be providing users with the ability to run their own server with client syncing and the like. That will be handled through the Realm Works cloud server only.

The approach we've prototyped is for the GM's computer to behave as a simple web server during play. Player devices can then retrieve material directly from the GM's computer over a local internet connection. This provides live updates to players during the game without the need to access the Realm Works cloud server, which might be unavailable due to venue limitations (e.g. horribly slow speeds at a hotel during a Con or expensive 3G/4G access being cost-prohibitive).

This is great since it should make it possible to run on an ad-hoc network where there's no internet, period.

Regarding the mapping, that's very exciting. I've been playing around with Hexographer and Dungeonographer, and they're at about the right skill/difficulty level for me

 

[rob]

Hullo, I never knew that was in the works! Since not all players have access to the network where my group games, this is an incredibly exciting feature to me Is this amongst the goals that need the Kickstarter, then, or is it part of the core plan?

This one is actually beyond the initial Kickstarter goals. However, this would be ideally suited as a stretch goal for the Kickstarter.

 

[rob]

This is great since it should make it possible to run on an ad-hoc network where there's no internet, period.

That's exactly the idea.

 

[Asandir]

We won't be providing users with the ability to run their own server with client syncing and the like. That will be handled through the Realm Works cloud server only.

The approach we've prototyped is for the GM's computer to behave as a simple web server during play. Player devices can then retrieve material directly from the GM's computer over a local internet connection. This provides live updates to players during the game without the need to access the Realm Works cloud server, which might be unavailable due to venue limitations (e.g. horribly slow speeds at a hotel during a Con or expensive 3G/4G access being cost-prohibitive).

This was what I was trying to get to with my question above and did a poor job of asking.

Part of the question still remains and that is will Realm Works run on Windows Server 2011 if I install it there rather than on my laptop, for example.

 

[rob]

Part of the question still remains and that is will Realm Works run on Windows Server 2011 if I install it there rather than on my laptop, for example.

As long as Windows Server 2011 supports the .Net Framework 4.0 Client Profile, which I'm guessing it does, you should be able to run Realm Works on it. However, I've not personally used Windows Server 2011, so can't promise that with absolute certainty. Sometimes Microsoft does weird things with its server O/S installations...

 

[mirtos]

So I have two questions:

1. With revealing info to players, can that be done on a per player basis (as in one character knows something that another doesnt?)

2. What about Windows 8? My next computer is going to (unfortunately) have windows 8, and I assume it has the needed tech details, but i wanted to know ahead of time.

Thanks

 

[rob]

1. With revealing info to players, can that be done on a per player basis (as in one character knows something that another doesnt?)

This capability is built into the underlying engine, but it has not yet been added to the UI. This is definitely something we plan to provide. However, it's not expected to be a part of the initial V1.0 release. That being said, it's a high priority for us to add shortly thereafter, which is why we've already built this into the architecture.

2. What about Windows 8? My next computer is going to (unfortunately) have windows 8, and I assume it has the needed tech details, but i wanted to know ahead of time.

Absolutely! Realm Works relies on the .Net Framework 4.0, which is fully supported by Windows 8. The product will actually run on anything from XP onwards, although certain service packs are required in some cases.

 

[mirtos]

This capability is built into the underlying engine, but it has not yet been added to the UI. This is definitely something we plan to provide. However, it's not expected to be a part of the initial V1.0 release. That being said, it's a high priority for us to add shortly thereafter, which is why we've already built this into the architecture.

Glad to hear it. Thats key for me. I run highly RP oriented campaigns with players often not knowing what other players do, and lots of intrigue. Thats the hardest for me to keep track of.

 

[Ladyofdragons]

I have pledged to the kickstarter. Fingers crossed for you, because I want that beta access! Seriously, if it doesn't work out I'd like it anyway.

Anyway, I put the word out to my gaming group, and one of the other GMs had some questions and valid points:

1. what is the order of magnitude for your projected price on the monthly cloud services, at the lowest tier? $1? $5? $10? For him it makes a big difference as to whether he would join the kickstarter or not. I know you say tiered pricing, but a ballpark would be nice.

2. if, by some chance, it is no longer economically viable to continue the cloud services (this has certainly happened to game servers over the years as the games have gone out of fashion), would you go so far as agreeing that at that time you would release an add-on product that would allow DMs to host their own data? This would go a long way for him to know that the product has a future even beyond your plans.

 

[rob]

1. what is the order of magnitude for your projected price on the monthly cloud services, at the lowest tier? $1? $5? $10? For him it makes a big difference as to whether he would join the kickstarter or not. I know you say tiered pricing, but a ballpark would be nice.

Our best *guess* at this point is in the neighborhood of a few dollars a month. The goal is to keep it below $5. I believe that should be achievable and that we'll be able to keep it even lower than that. Cost isn't the driving concern in all of this, since we've got a fair understanding of how much it costs for X storage and Y bandwidth.

The critical factor is determining exactly how much storage/bandwidth a "typical" user will truly want/need, and that's where we don't have any good data yet. If our current projections are wrong in that regard, we'll need to make adjustments to what the provisions of each tier are, and that will correspondingly cause the pricing to adjust. We need to pick tiers that are actually useful to large segments of the user base, and we don't yet have appropriate profile data to base anything upon.

Consequently, it's all just a guess at this point, so please don't interpret this as a solid commitment.

2. if, by some chance, it is no longer economically viable to continue the cloud services (this has certainly happened to game servers over the years as the games have gone out of fashion), would you go so far as agreeing that at that time you would release an add-on product that would allow DMs to host their own data? This would go a long way for him to know that the product has a future even beyond your plans.

That's a valid question, but we honestly haven't given it any thought. Right now, all our energies are focused on getting the product launched - not on its potential demise at some indeterminate point in the (hopefully) far-off future. So we can't make any guarantees about anything like that at the moment. I can promise that we'd make it possible to get your material out of the product for use somewhere else. Beyond that, it's not something we've thought about yet.

 

[mirtos]

so here's a weird question. Multiple campaigns that share the same world? does realmsworks support this sort of thing?

 

[rob]

so here's a weird question. Multiple campaigns that share the same world? does realmsworks support this sort of thing?

Here's an excerpt from a reply in the Comments section of the Kickstarter that addresses this idea...

Once we get the community repository into place and sharing of material is supported (i.e. the core goals of this KS), you should be able to re-use your own campaign. You would first setup and share your basic campaign world (Realm1). Once it's shared, you could then import that realm multiple times as the starting point for multiple distinct campaigns (Realm2, Realm3, etc.). What's revealed would be completely distinct for all the different campaigns, so different groups would know different information about the overall world.

 

[rob]

In another forum, the question was raised regarding what we're really trying to achieve with Realm Works, as it's not clear exactly what type of gaming group we're targeting. That's probably because we're trying to accomplish quite a lot with the product. Here's an adapted version of my reply in that forum that will hopefully make the vision a bit clearer...

There are both short-term and long-term goals for Realm Works. In the short-term, there are many games being played where high-speed internet access is not reliably and inexpensively available. Cons are a prime example of this, as are venues like many schools, clubs, and libraries. But consider game preparation as well. How many people have constant internet access on the train, on the bus, at lunch during work? If you come up with an idea, you want to run with it then - not hours later.

Now consider the reliability factor. How often do people experience internet drops or slow-downs? What about server outages? What happens when you've only got a slow connection or the server goes down for even 5 minutes? It renders the game unplayable if you're 100% reliant on a high-speed connection to a server somewhere.

What if you're a GM who normally runs games at home with full internet access but also wants to run games at GenCon or PaizoCon, where internet access is costly and slow? Do you want to have all these tools available at home and then have nothing at the Con? That's far from an ideal scenario.

The only way to address these issues is to provide a non-web-based solution that runs on a disconnected client. Always available. Guaranteed performance.

That's the short-term reality. So let's look at the long-term now.

The sands are shifting away from desktops/laptops and over towards tablets with internet access. In the upcoming years, internet access will continue to become faster, cheaper, more widely accessible, and more reliable. At some point, it will become truly ubiquitous. When that day occurs, the client application will be of no value to anyone. But we're not there yet. We're living in a transitional period, so we need something that will work today and shift along with the sands.

Enter the cloud. The Realm Works cloud is NOT just storage. It's not Dropbox or GoogleDrive where you store simple documents and files. It's the entire campaign fully operational on a server. Players can access it via a web-based interface from their tablets if they want. It's fully accessible between games. But nobody is reliant on the server in order to actually PLAY their game.

Over time, we'll be replicating all the functionality of the client application onto the server. The net result will be duplicate functionality, with both a purely online interface and the client application, catering appropriately to anyone in any environment. At some point, the sands will have shifted enough that we leave the client application behind.

That's the evolution plan for Realm Works.

Now couple that with the ability to find pre-made content like settings, adventures, and NPCs in the community repository. Instead of having different books/PDFs with Post-Its and scribbled notes to cobble them together, everything is integrated into one unified environment. You can rename locations and NPCs to place them into your world. You can establish links to put the Dungeon of Doom from PublisherX into a setting from PublisherY that you've already woven into your own campaign. No more flipping between different resources during games. And it's all available to the players as well - the pieces you've revealed, at least.

That's the overall vision and evolutionary plan. Realm Works is not targeted specifically for either online or offline play. It's a solution that will be equally suited to both purposes while further immersing players and GMs into the game.

 

[mirtos]

It sounds like some of the stuff I am hoping for (individual player knowledge) wont be available day one but soon. very excited. (also in at the beta testing level, so i too am hoping it makes it and if it doesnt might be allowed into the beta test as well).

out of curiousity, from a technical perspective, have you decided who you are using for your cloud services? Is it local to you? If you are using amazon, id warn you my company has had some bad experiences with them. just as an FYI.