House Rules - Turning Off Causes Problems

[Matt Harris]

I purchased Hero Lab last Wednesday, played aroung a bit, and the began looking to see if I could implement my house rules. One of them is that Light Shields & Quickdraw Light Shields give +2 AC, Heavy Shields give +4 and Tower Shields give +6.

After a little bit of frustration and lots of googling, I managed to get that implemented, saved into a custom user file with source so I can turn it on/off from the configure your hero menu.

However, when my houserules are not checked, the shields disappear entirely (although the quickdraw shields remain).

What, pray tell, am I missing?

Thanks for any help or insight you can provide.

 

[Mathias]

If you replace something and add a source, you are not saying "use this version while this source is checked and the normal version if it's not". You are saying "This now works like so, and is now only available while this source is checked."

Replacements are checked before sources.

 

[Aaron]

So the solution is, do the replacement, but don't give the replacement thing a source. Instead, make an eval script which looks for your house rule source to be turned on (there is a "source.WHATEVER" tag on the hero that indicates if a certain source is on), and then applies whatever changes are necessary under that rule.

 

[Aaron]

Or I suppose you could make a mechanic which has your house rule source, which foreached through all the shields and bumped them up as desired.

 

[ShadowChemosh]

I can't recall clearly but I think a shield is just marked as "buckler, light, heavy, Tower". Which means feats and abilities are looking at the Type of shield not at specific shields like would happen with a feat.

In that case just don't do the "Replace Thing ID" and instead have two versions one core and one house rule. Then on the "*Hidden" tab you can setup to hide the "CORE" shields when your house rules is turned on. When your house rules is turned off the CORE version shows and not your House Rule version.

 

[Matt Harris]

Thanks for the help. I was hoping to avoid scripting, but will look at that.

 

[Matt Harris]

ShadowChemosh:

Your idea mostly worked. I had to use the preclude tab.

On the downside - there are now ~30 items that are bootstrapped off various shields that don't see the base shield armor bonus.

Back to the drawing board. :_(

 

[ShadowChemosh]

Your idea mostly worked. I had to use the preclude tab.

My bad I mentioned the wrong tab but you found the right one.

On the downside - there are now ~30 items that are bootstrapped off various shields that don't see the base shield armor bonus.

Back to the drawing board. :_(

Why do you have 30 bootstraps? Nothing in my idea needed bootstraps actually.

Attached to this post is a .user file that shows a working proof of concept that I just did using the Light Steel Shield. If you have this source "Shield House Rules" turned off you get the CORE shield. If you have it turned on you get your new light shield that gives +2 bonus.

I tested with some Shield Feats and they all treat the shield just like the CORE version.

When working this kind of stuff its best to do Proof of Concepts. Do one shield and test it out in lots of different ways before spending time do all shields only to find it may not work the way you expect. In this case my PoC appears to be working...

So I am missing something about what your trying to accomplish?

 

[Matt Harris]

I was unclear.

I have created (for example) a heavy wooden shield that is +4 instead of +2.

I have used the *preclude tab to hide it when my source is selected.

That works just fine.

An Absorbing Shield, however, doesn't. It is at +1 Heavy Steel Shield. When I select it with my house rule file unselected, it gives +3 AC. If my House Rule file is selected it gives +1.

If I do all six shields in my house rules, there are about 30 custom shields that I will need to redo. 17 are based upon heavy steel shields alone.

 

[ShadowChemosh]

I was unclear.

I have created (for example) a heavy wooden shield that is +4 instead of +2.

I have used the *preclude tab to hide it when my source is selected.

Just to make sure we are on the same page. You used the *Preclude tab to set your House Rules Source and the "CORE" ID of the Heavy Wooden Shield. The above makes it sound the opposite.

The *Preclude hides the Thing when the source is NOT checked. The opposite of how the sources normally work. So in this case you would have "4 Shield" IDs on the *Preclude Tab, more if you have UE, but its only the CORE shields that are listed on the *Preclude tab. When "House Rules" is marked the 4-6 shields you have on the *Preclude tab then get removed.

An Absorbing Shield, however, doesn't. It is at +1 Heavy Steel Shield. When I select it with my house rule file unselected, it gives +3 AC. If my House Rule file is selected it gives +1.

If I do all six shields in my house rules, there are about 30 custom shields that I will need to redo. 17 are based upon heavy steel shields alone.

Your new shields, all 30 of them, are located on the "Armor" tab and are setup with your rules. Then these 30 are all source marked (ie the "Source" blue button) to your "House Rules" source so that only when marked do the 30 show up.

And boom your shields show up when the source is marked and the CORE shields are hidden. When House Rules source is turned off the CORE shields display and your custom shields do not.

 

[Matt Harris]

I used the *Preclude tab to hide the core shield when my source is selected. So when the source is selected, my shield versions show up and the core doesn't.

I have attached the .user file if you want to look at it.

 

[Aaron]

You sure you don't want to do it with a mechanic and a foreach? That's extend to all current and future shields, so you wouldn't have to constantly update the precludes or replacements...

Only downside would be the bonus displayed when initially buying the shield wouldn't include your bonus.

 

[Matt Harris]

I'd love too...but I have been reading through the scripting rules and am really unclear how to go about it.

The mechanic would probably work better especially as I was planning on using a lot of pre-generated characters (I hav just started a Kingmaker campaign) and I would have to fix up anyone with any time of shield.

 

[Aaron]

Alright, so here is what I recommend. Delete your precludes, and the new shield versions, then update the eval script on your mechanic to run at Pre-Levels 500 and look like this:

   ~ Stop if we are not currently using the house rules.
   doneif (hero.tagis[source.MJH_HRules] = 0)

   ~Cycle through all armor type things which are Shields or Tower Shields.
   foreach pick in hero from BaseArmor where "ArmorClass.Shield | ArmorClass.Tower"

     ~ Now check to see which shield class this shield is, and apply an appropriate bonus.
     ~ Light shields get a +1 bonus.
     if (eachpick.tagis[ShldClass.Light] <> 0) then
       eachpick.field[arAC].value += 1
       endif

     ~ Heavy and Tower shields get a +2 bonus.
     if (eachpick.tagis[ShldClass.Heavy] + eachpick.tagis[ShldClass.Tower] <> 0) then
       eachpick.field[arAC].value += 2
       endif
     
     nexteach

 

[Aaron]

I tested this and it seems to be working. You didn't mention any changes to Bucklers, so I left them alone.

 

[ShadowChemosh]

I used the *Preclude tab to hide the core shield when my source is selected. So when the source is selected, my shield versions show up and the core doesn't.

I have attached the .user file if you want to look at it.

So the only thing I see is that you have some of the shields marked to multiple sources. So if any of those sources are marked the shield will show up. This means if I have APG turned on and your House Rules not marked you will still see the Custom shields that are source marked to the APG source.

Only thing I see that is an issue.

If you like Aaron's way better that is cool too. My players find it confusing when they buy something with "X" values and it shows up on the character with "Y" values. Why I was leading you down this path instead.

 

[Matt Harris]

Excellent! That will save so much work.

Thank you ever so much.

ShadowChemosh - thanks for your help as well. I am sure I will find a use for the stuff I learned from you, too.