Have Perception, want Notice and Search.

[Manic Modron]

Helloooooo, forum!

I'm planning on getting into a Pathfinder game in the near future and I have only one real problem with the skill list. I think Perception is too strong. God knows I don't want Spot, Listen AND Search, but I do want to split Perception into Notice and Search.

In 3.5 I'd want to do something similar. Combine Spot and Listen into Perception, but leave Search alone.

How is this best accomplished?

 

[mirtos]

Helloooooo, forum!

I'm planning on getting into a Pathfinder game in the near future and I have only one real problem with the skill list. I think Perception is too strong. God knows I don't want Spot, Listen AND Search, but I do want to split Perception into Notice and Search.

In 3.5 I'd want to do something similar. Combine Spot and Listen into Perception, but leave Search alone.

How is this best accomplished?

I dont know if you could get rid of spot/listen, but I think you could easily create a new skill called "perception" through the editor. And just tell your players (or yourself if you handle all the character sheets) to put ranks into perception. You will also have to modifiy all the classes, unfortunately, to give the ones you want as cross/cross-class skills. (I think). I havent created new skills, but I think you will have to do that. Just out of curiousity, though, how do you propose to handle classes that give one as a class skill, but not the other?

(oops, my answer goes for the 3.5 part of the question , not the Pathfinder portion)

 

[Redbranch]

Couldn't you just make "notice" a perception roll with a modifier (-2 to -5)? Both are about testing a character's awareness. The only difference is one is passive and one is active.

 

[bodrin]

Personally I think the perception check is an elegant catch all for the base mechanics.

Think 5 senses, touch, taste, smell, sound, and sight. They all do roughly the same thing, provide environmental stimulus. Not one overpowers the others unless there is a mitigating factor.

Combining the spot, listen and search into one modifier removed a lot of dice rolling and sped the gameplay up.

Just my opinion.

 

[Manic Modron]

You will also have to modifiy all the classes, unfortunately, to give the ones you want as cross/cross-class skills. (I think).

Yeah, I was afraid of that. It might not be worth that kind of trouble to go through for a simple preference.

Just out of curiousity, though, how do you propose to handle classes that give one as a class skill, but not the other?

Just say that if they have one of the first two, they can have Notice.

Couldn't you just make "notice" a perception roll with a modifier (-2 to -5)? Both are about testing a character's awareness. The only difference is one is passive and one is active.

No, I'm not talking about passive vs active. I'd say to check out Fantasy Craft for what I'm talking about, but...

Personally I think the perception check is an elegant catch all for the base mechanics.
...
Combining the spot, listen and search into one modifier removed a lot of dice rolling and sped the gameplay up.

Spot and Listen are both based on Wisdom like Perception so just having the one skill that represents training and development of raw sensory input makes a lot of sense.

However, Search is based on Int and is a deductive skill that has much less to do with seeing stuff than it does with knowing what that stuff means. Not so much, "I feel a draft coming from the wall" as "I can reason out where the door trigger is hidden."

I also wish that the Dex based physical skills got wrapped up into Acrobatics, but the Str based physical skills would have been given Athletics. I don't think Jump should have migrated over to Acro.

Still, it seems that I'd have to do a lot to the program to make it work right. The best way to go for what I want seems to be making my own character sheet and I really want to make use out of Herolab after all I spent on it.

 

[ShadowChemosh]

Still, it seems that I'd have to do a lot to the program to make it work right. The best way to go for what I want seems to be making my own character sheet and I really want to make use out of Herolab after all I spent on it.

I don't have time to get into exact explanations but what you want can be done.

I would first use a script, mostly likely on a Mechanic (but an adjustment could work), to rename "Perception" to "Notice". Or do a replace ID so that Perception gets renamed to Notice but all scripts would add to Notice then instead of perception.

Then add a new skill called "Search" based on Int instead. Instead of modifying every class you could A) use an Adjustment to make it a class skill or B) use a Mechanic that for X classes makes the skill a class skill. This way no classes have to be changed.

Assume you would want say the "Alertness" feat or something to add to your new skill you could do a "Replace Thing ID" and modify the script to add to your new skill. Or the Mechanic can be used to say if you have feat X to give a bonus to the notice skill.

The reason I mention a Mechanic is that it gets attached always to every character and is always running. So my normal method is to make "Simple" things in the editor and attach them to my house rules "Mechanic". Then have the "Simple" Things set to a specific "Source" so when that "Source" house rule is check marked in the "Configure Your Hero" window the scripts turn on. If not check marked then the "Simple" Things don't run and no house rule is in effect.

That would be how I would go about this if it was me.