File Design Wishlist

[mgehl at home.com]

Some things I would like to get for use in my Fleet Action datafiles.

In this system, many ships (units) can take fighters (another type of
unit). Currently, the fighters are attached to the ship which buys
them, but ideally, I would like all fighters to be attached to the
squadron leader (overall parent unit), because there are a limited
number of fighter types available, and it would therefore take up less
space on the roster this way.

I've mentioned it before, but in this system, since I use an overall
parent unit as my squadron commander and then attach other ships (child
units) to it, I run into problems with the point totals that squadron
leaders can accumulate, since the units people tend to choose as their
squadron leaders tend to have point-percentage restrictions, which
should according to the game's rules, apply only to the ship itself, and
not it's squadron members as well.

Thanks,
Mathias Gehl
mgehl@home.com

 

[wulfc at wulf.demon.co.uk]

On Sat, 16 Jun 2001 15:14:54 -0700, Mathias Gehl <mgehl@home.com>
wrote:

>I've mentioned it before, but in this system, since I use an overall
>parent unit as my squadron commander and then attach other ships (child
>units) to it, I run into problems with the point totals that squadron
>leaders can accumulate, since the units people tend to choose as their
>squadron leaders tend to have point-percentage restrictions, which
>should according to the game's rules, apply only to the ship itself, and
>not it's squadron members as well.

Would it be possible (I've tried to figure it out myself) to change
the basic unit from a ship to a squadron commander? Buy a 'free' unit,
representing the squadron as a whole, which could accumulate CC, CR,
EW & cost (and whatever else), but not itself count for limits of
these? It's not how it works in B5FA, but on studying AB it seems
feasible to me (a little knowledge, of course, is a dangerous
thing...).

Wulf

 

[mgehl at home.com]

Wulf Corbett wrote:

>
> Would it be possible (I've tried to figure it out myself) to change
> the basic unit from a ship to a squadron commander? Buy a 'free' unit,
> representing the squadron as a whole, which could accumulate CC, CR,
> EW & cost (and whatever else), but not itself count for limits of
> these? It's not how it works in B5FA, but on studying AB it seems
> feasible to me (a little knowledge, of course, is a dangerous
> thing...).
>

This would definitely be possible. It still doesn't solve the problem
that fighters shouldn't be counted in their carrier's point cost.

Mathias Gehl
mgehl@home.com

 

[wulfc at wulf.demon.co.uk]

On Sat, 16 Jun 2001 16:55:38 -0700, Mathias Gehl <mgehl@home.com>
wrote:

>This would definitely be possible. It still doesn't solve the problem
>that fighters shouldn't be counted in their carrier's point cost.

No, but it would solve the squadron command ship cost problem. I don't
know enough about the system to suggest a solution to the fighter
problem (never mind do it)...

Wulf

 

[ericbloodax at hotmail.co]

This is a (sort of) round-about way to do it. Basically, make the
fighters as separate units & use the "attach arrow" (at least that is
what I call it) & attach them to the ship you want. I do not believe
their costs will be totalled together, this way. Of course, someone may
know a better way. Hope this helps.


----Original Message Follows----
From: Mathias Gehl <mgehl@home.com>
Reply-To: armybuilder@yahoogroups.com
To: ab@support.wolflair.com
Subject: [AB] File Design Wishlist
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 15:14:54 -0700

Some things I would like to get for use in my Fleet Action datafiles.

In this system, many ships (units) can take fighters (another type of
unit). Currently, the fighters are attached to the ship which buys
them, but ideally, I would like all fighters to be attached to the
squadron leader (overall parent unit), because there are a limited
number of fighter types available, and it would therefore take up less
space on the roster this way.

I've mentioned it before, but in this system, since I use an overall
parent unit as my squadron commander and then attach other ships (child
units) to it, I run into problems with the point totals that squadron
leaders can accumulate, since the units people tend to choose as their
squadron leaders tend to have point-percentage restrictions, which
should according to the game's rules, apply only to the ship itself, and
not it's squadron members as well.

Thanks,
Mathias Gehl
mgehl@home.com


_________________________________________________________________
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[wulfc at wulf.demon.co.uk]

By the way...
On Sat, 16 Jun 2001 15:14:54 -0700, Mathias Gehl <mgehl@home.com>
wrote:

>In this system, many ships (units) can take fighters (another type of
>unit). Currently, the fighters are attached to the ship which buys
>them, but ideally, I would like all fighters to be attached to the
>squadron leader (overall parent unit), because there are a limited
>number of fighter types available, and it would therefore take up less
>space on the roster this way.

I personally prefer the fighters to be attached to their 'carrier'
ship for a few reasons:

Allows some ships to carry missile-armed fighters, some not.

Makes it easier to see which fighter types are carried by which ships,
where there is a choice

Where not all ships are fully loaded, lets me see which have which
load.

Wulf

 

[rob]

I don't know the mechanics of Fleet Action, so I'm taking a wild guess
here, based inferences from your post. If I way off, please clarify the
mechanics and I'll try again....

Option #1. Accumulate the points specifically for the squadon leader into a
hidden stat. Then use "tlmt" to impose a percentage limit on the squadon
leaders, excluding any child units.

Option #2. If you are trying to limit space on the roster output for the
various fighters, use the "apnd:foot" attribute for duplicated options.
This way, the various fighter groups only consume a single line of output
and all the details are summarized at the bottom of the roster.

Hope this helps,
Rob


At 03:14 PM 6/16/2001 -0700, you wrote:
>Some things I would like to get for use in my Fleet Action datafiles.
>
>In this system, many ships (units) can take fighters (another type of
>unit). Currently, the fighters are attached to the ship which buys
>them, but ideally, I would like all fighters to be attached to the
>squadron leader (overall parent unit), because there are a limited
>number of fighter types available, and it would therefore take up less
>space on the roster this way.
>
>I've mentioned it before, but in this system, since I use an overall
>parent unit as my squadron commander and then attach other ships (child
>units) to it, I run into problems with the point totals that squadron
>leaders can accumulate, since the units people tend to choose as their
>squadron leaders tend to have point-percentage restrictions, which
>should according to the game's rules, apply only to the ship itself, and
>not it's squadron members as well.
>
>Thanks,
>Mathias Gehl
>mgehl@home.com


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rob Bowes (rob@wolflair.com) (650) 726-9689
Lone Wolf Development www.wolflair.com

 

[mgehl at home.com]

Why don't I add an example, because I'm not communicating properly.

A mostly legal force:
1 Avenger Heavy Carrier, leading 2 Omega Destroyers
(Parent w/ 2 children)

The Avenger also comes with 8 Starfury fighters (child units), and the
Omegas each come with 2 Starfury fighters and 2 Thunderbolt fighters

The Avenger has an uncommon rarity, so it (and all other uncommon units)
may make up no more than 33% of the point value of a roster. Nothing
else here has any rarity restrictions

Here's how this displays in AB:
Unit # Cost
Avenger 1 2200
Omega 1 775
Thunderbolt 2 170
Starfury 2 100
Omega 1 775
Thunderbolt 2 170
Starfury 2 100
Starfury 8 400
(=2200)

Ideally, I would like it to look like:
Avenger 1 250
Omega 2 1010
Starfury 12 600
Thunderbolt 4 340

I've tried allowing the use of the +/- button for squadron members (the
omegas, in this case), but the fighters don't come out right, and each
ship should add something to a total maintained by the commander, and
they only add it once per set, if I remember right.

You can see what I'd like to do to make the fighters use less space to
display - I would like to be able to add sibling units, in addition to
children.

The Avenger is not more than 33% of the total, but because of its
fighters and squadron members, AB thinks that it does have more than 33%
of the total points.

In the tournament rules, fighters may be no more than 25% of your fleet
(done by a type-limit), but AB doesn't complain about that for this fleet.

In the tournament rules, you must have a minimum of three jump engines.
Omegas and Avengers both have jump engines, and in AB they have
type:jump, so this should be legal, but AB complains (a quick test by
adding squadron commanders shows that AB is noting only one model with
type:jump at this point). Is it that tlmt (race attribute) only checks
the top-level unit? (is forc the solution here?).

Rob Bowes wrote:

> I don't know the mechanics of Fleet Action, so I'm taking a wild guess
> here, based inferences from your post. If I way off, please clarify the
> mechanics and I'll try again....
>
> Option #1. Accumulate the points specifically for the squadon leader into a
> hidden stat. Then use "tlmt" to impose a percentage limit on the squadon
> leaders, excluding any child units.
>
> Option #2. If you are trying to limit space on the roster output for the
> various fighters, use the "apnd:foot" attribute for duplicated options.
> This way, the various fighter groups only consume a single line of output
> and all the details are summarized at the bottom of the roster.
>
> Hope this helps,
> Rob

Mathias Gehl
mgehl@home.com

 

[rob]

AB implicitly accumulates totals from children into the parents. There is
no way to disable this behavior. So the Avenger will always show as a total
of 2200 in your example.

From a usability standpoint, different ships in the squadron have
different limits on the number and type of fighters they can take.
Therefore, AB needs to track them separately AND - from a pure usability
perspective - this is an important visible distinction that users need to
see. I need to know how many unused slots are available on which ships and
for which types of fighters if I'm going to most effectively tweak my
roster. Another user already pointed out this issue, too. This means that
collapsing the output is more efficient from a roster output perspective
but less useful to the end-user.



At 06:28 PM 6/18/2001 -0700, you wrote:
> Why don't I add an example, because I'm not communicating properly.
>
>A mostly legal force:
>1 Avenger Heavy Carrier, leading 2 Omega Destroyers
>(Parent w/ 2 children)
>
> The Avenger also comes with 8 Starfury fighters (child units),
> and the
>Omegas each come with 2 Starfury fighters and 2 Thunderbolt fighters
>
> The Avenger has an uncommon rarity, so it (and all other uncommon
> units)
>may make up no more than 33% of the point value of a roster. Nothing
>else here has any rarity restrictions
>
>Here's how this displays in AB:
>Unit # Cost
>Avenger 1 2200
>Omega 1 775
>Thunderbolt 2 170
>Starfury 2 100
>Omega 1 775
>Thunderbolt 2 170
>Starfury 2 100
>Starfury 8 400
>(=2200)
>
>Ideally, I would like it to look like:
>Avenger 1 250
>Omega 2 1010
>Starfury 12 600
>Thunderbolt 4 340
>
> I've tried allowing the use of the +/- button for squadron
> members (the
>omegas, in this case), but the fighters don't come out right, and each
>ship should add something to a total maintained by the commander, and
>they only add it once per set, if I remember right.
>
> You can see what I'd like to do to make the fighters use less
> space to
>display - I would like to be able to add sibling units, in addition to
>children.
>
> The Avenger is not more than 33% of the total, but because of its
>fighters and squadron members, AB thinks that it does have more than 33%
>of the total points.
>
> In the tournament rules, fighters may be no more than 25% of your
> fleet
>(done by a type-limit), but AB doesn't complain about that for this fleet.
>
> In the tournament rules, you must have a minimum of three jump
> engines.
>Omegas and Avengers both have jump engines, and in AB they have
>type:jump, so this should be legal, but AB complains (a quick test by
>adding squadron commanders shows that AB is noting only one model with
>type:jump at this point). Is it that tlmt (race attribute) only checks
>the top-level unit? (is forc the solution here?).
>
>Rob Bowes wrote:
>
> > I don't know the mechanics of Fleet Action, so I'm taking a wild guess
> > here, based inferences from your post. If I way off, please clarify the
> > mechanics and I'll try again....
> >
> > Option #1. Accumulate the points specifically for the squadon leader
> into a
> > hidden stat. Then use "tlmt" to impose a percentage limit on the squadon
> > leaders, excluding any child units.
> >
> > Option #2. If you are trying to limit space on the roster output for the
> > various fighters, use the "apnd:foot" attribute for duplicated options.
> > This way, the various fighter groups only consume a single line of output
> > and all the details are summarized at the bottom of the roster.
> >
> > Hope this helps,
> > Rob
>
>Mathias Gehl
>mgehl@home.com
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, email
>
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>
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[mgehl at home.com]

Rob or Colen - I'm trying to get this to work (using a placeholder as
the lead element of a squadron), but I can't figure out a way to
distinguish the squadron leader among the selected child units. Any
suggestions, please?

Mathias Gehl
mgehl@home.com

Wulf Corbett wrote:


> Would it be possible (I've tried to figure it out myself) to change
> the basic unit from a ship to a squadron commander? Buy a 'free' unit,
> representing the squadron as a whole, which could accumulate CC, CR,
> EW & cost (and whatever else), but not itself count for limits of
> these? It's not how it works in B5FA, but on studying AB it seems
> feasible to me (a little knowledge, of course, is a dangerous
> thing...).
>
> Wulf

 

[rob]

Attach a type to the unit when it is a child. Use the "preq" attribute to
verify this state. You can then distinguish between the parent unit
(squadron leader) and all children.

Thanks, Rob


At 07:21 PM 6/19/2001 -0700, you wrote:
>Rob or Colen - I'm trying to get this to work (using a placeholder as
>the lead element of a squadron), but I can't figure out a way to
>distinguish the squadron leader among the selected child units. Any
>suggestions, please?

 

[mgehl at home.com]

Sorry I was unclear - a specific unit, chosen from the general list, is
different from all the others that are chosen (I can of course have the
user check squadron commander status for one ship, but that's not ideal).

Rob Bowes wrote:

> Attach a type to the unit when it is a child. Use the "preq" attribute to
> verify this state. You can then distinguish between the parent unit
> (squadron leader) and all children.
>
> Thanks, Rob
>
>
> At 07:21 PM 6/19/2001 -0700, you wrote:
>
>> Rob or Colen - I'm trying to get this to work (using a placeholder as
>> the lead element of a squadron), but I can't figure out a way to
>> distinguish the squadron leader among the selected child units. Any
>> suggestions, please?

Mathias Gehl
mgehl@home.com

 

[rob]

So what conditions exist that allow you to "know" which unit is the
squadron leader? Since I don't know the game mechanics, I don't know how to
answer your question.

If there is no way to unequivocably "know" which it is, then you have to
rely on the user designating the unit via an option. You can simply use
validation rules to ensure that exactly one unit is designated at the
squadon leader.

Thanks, Rob


At 11:56 PM 6/20/2001 -0700, you wrote:
> Sorry I was unclear - a specific unit, chosen from the general
> list, is
>different from all the others that are chosen (I can of course have the
>user check squadron commander status for one ship, but that's not ideal).
>
>Rob Bowes wrote:
>
> > Attach a type to the unit when it is a child. Use the "preq" attribute to
> > verify this state. You can then distinguish between the parent unit
> > (squadron leader) and all children.
> >
> > Thanks, Rob
> >
> >
> > At 07:21 PM 6/19/2001 -0700, you wrote:
> >
> >> Rob or Colen - I'm trying to get this to work (using a placeholder as
> >> the lead element of a squadron), but I can't figure out a way to
> >> distinguish the squadron leader among the selected child units. Any
> >> suggestions, please?