FEATURE - A deity option for "unaligned" and alignment option of "n/a"

[davidj]

FEATURE - A deity option for "unaligned" and alignment option of "n/a"

So, in the deity list you have choices for Atheist and Other. In the case of other, you get to enter a deity name and alignment. That's great, but clunky if your character is unaligned.

Clerics, as an example and as surprising as this may sound, need not align with a diety (Core 39). Rather, they may dedicate themselves to a divine concept such as battle, death, justice, knowledge, or whatever else the player and the GM cook up. In such a case, having an Other alignment choice of "n/a" would be nice.

But let's say I have a rogue who is simply unaligned. In such a case, Atheist isn't the correct choice because, well, that's kinda like saying the character doesn't believe in water. The Pathfinder universe is filled with gods that actually show up and do stuff, so the atheist position is unlikely. It would be nice if, in addition to Other and Atheist, there was a top-level choice of Unaligned. Yes, I realize I could use Other with a deity name of Unaligned and I guess an alignment of True Neutral, but again... clunky.

I'm new to this forum, and Hero Lab in general, so I hope this is the correct place for feature requests. If not, please someone, let me know.

 

[Mathias]

In the deity selection, the option just under Atheist is "-Other/Philosophy-", so if your character follows a philosophy of battle, death, etc., you can select that option.

 

[ShadowChemosh]

So, in the deity list you have choices for Atheist and Other. In the case of other, you get to enter a deity name and alignment. That's great, but clunky if your character is unaligned.

No such thing as "unaligned" in Pathfinder. Every living and non-living thing (even cities) have alignments.

Clerics, as an example and as surprising as this may sound, need not align with a diety (Core 39). Rather, they may dedicate themselves to a divine concept such as battle, death, justice, knowledge, or whatever else the player and the GM cook up. In such a case, having an Other alignment choice of "n/a" would be nice.

Even with no deity you must still pick an alignment. So such thing a "other alignment" or no alignment in Pathfinder. True Neutral is still an alignment in Pathfinder.

But let's say I have a rogue who is simply unaligned. In such a case, Atheist isn't the correct choice because, well, that's kinda like saying the character doesn't believe in water. The Pathfinder universe is filled with gods that actually show up and do stuff, so the atheist position is unlikely. It would be nice if, in addition to Other and Atheist, there was a top-level choice of Unaligned. Yes, I realize I could use Other with a deity name of Unaligned and I guess an alignment of True Neutral, but again... clunky.

Not clunky its the rules of the game. Everything needs an alignment. Even the undead in the world have alignments including a mindless zombie.

If your group decides to go this way of no alignments I recommend looking at Pathfinder Unchained that has rules for it and are actually supported in Hero Lab. I have no idea if the ideas will fit as I never actually read it in detail but figured I should mention it.

 

[AndrewD2]

Just an FYI atheist in Pathfinder does mean "does not believe in gods" but means that you choose to not allow the gods to affect your or worship them.

 

[davidj]

Thanks, but what I meant by "unaligned" was "not affiliated with a particular deity". The RAW for alignment is that "all creatures" have an alignment (Core 166), so I still think it makes more sense that the concept of Knowledge has no alignment much in the same way that tables and chairs don't. I guess I'll just use True Neutral.

 

[davidj]

Just an FYI atheist in Pathfinder does mean "does not believe in gods" but means that you choose to not allow the gods to affect your or worship them.

I guess, except searching the Core Rules pdf turns up no mention of atheism. If Hero Lab wishes to to use Atheism to mean "does not worship a particular deity", they are the ones making up a new definition of the word, not Paizo. It seems like a simple thing to add an "unaffiliated" (I agree my original choice of "unaligned" might lead to other confusion) choice while keeping Atheist for a character in denial.

 

[Mathias]

I guess, except searching the Core Rules pdf turns up no mention of atheism. If Hero Lab wishes to to use Atheism to mean "does not worship a particular deity", they are the ones making up a new definition of the word, not Paizo. It seems like a simple thing to add an "unaffiliated" (I agree my original choice of "unaligned" might lead to other confusion) choice while keeping Atheist for a character in denial.

For a discussion of Atheism in Pathfinder, see pg. 6 of Faiths and Philosophies - that's where Hero Lab draws its Atheist option from.

 

[ShadowChemosh]

I guess, except searching the Core Rules pdf turns up no mention of atheism. If Hero Lab wishes to to use Atheism to mean "does not worship a particular deity", they are the ones making up a new definition of the word, not Paizo. It seems like a simple thing to add an "unaffiliated" (I agree my original choice of "unaligned" might lead to other confusion) choice while keeping Atheist for a character in denial.

So how does "Other" not work still? You have a belief system that does not directly worship a god. Similar to the Green Faith which falls into the "Philosophy" category.

At the end of things if you want to add something special then the "Editor" is your friend. In this case adding a new deity is really easy. So I recommend using the editor to add this "special" concept of faith. Way easier than trying to get LW to do it the way your group wants.

See Glossary of Terms for the Editor and then FAQ#2 for all the places to learn the editor.

 

[davidj]

For a discussion of Atheism in Pathfinder, see pg. 6 of Faiths and Philosophies - that's where Hero Lab draws its Atheist option from.

A companion I actually have, and I see the definition you are referring to.

*hangs head in shame*

Thanks.

I guess I have a further question then. Does choosing Atheism unlock the various Atheist Feats in Faiths & Philosophies? If it does, then I still think you should have an Unaffiliated choice. It's not the case my monk thinks the gods "...are unworthy of the authority and reverence bestowed upon them." It's simply the case she doesn't worship any particular deity. Atheism in Pathfinder, it would seem, is a refutation of the gods as opposed to mere ambivalence.

 

[ShadowChemosh]

Please note you guys (Mathias and davidj) are now mixing rule sets together. In the core rules (ie Pathfinder) you can have a cleric that worships an idea.

Once you add in Faiths and Philosophies you are now playing in the Golarion campaign setting a cleric MUST worship a deity.

Keep this in mind that the campaign setting rules can change the setting neutral rules listed in the RPG line of books.

 

[Mathias]

I guess I have a further question then. Does choosing Atheism unlock the various Atheist Feats in Faiths & Philosophies? If it does, then I still think you should have an Unaffiliated choice. It's not the case my monk thinks the gods "...are unworthy of the authority and reverence bestowed upon them." It's simply the case she doesn't worship any particular deity. Atheism in Pathfinder, it would seem, is a refutation of the gods as opposed to mere ambivalence.

I'd say this character should leave the deity selection blank.