(Drop Dead Studios) Spheres of Power: Official Support Thread

[GreyLurker]

Good to hear you are getting some help, looking forward to the next release.

With regards to Spheres of Might. There are still a fair number of missing Archtypes, would you be able to give any idea where they fall in your current timetable?

 

[Ualaa]

I was initially wondering where Ultimate Spheres of Power versus the remaining sphere specific handbooks (older versions, since the USoP kickstarter... but potentially still useful to those not interested in using the USoP version) prioritized.

Having the ability to do both is great.

Regarding Might, one of my players was interested in a Technician as the Spheres of Might files went live.
On release, we were told that Technician had implementation difficulties, and would eventually be updated.
Our group hasn't really looked at the class since then.
Just curious where that stands.

If we were choosing, USoP would be our priority.
But not sure what others would choose, and we're just one group out of many.

 

[Vallaki]

With one of the latest updates the Caster Level on the individual sphere tabs are effectively double counting casting levels form classes. They however are not double counting modifiers from implements or from Global Spherecatsing Level Modifiers in the adjustment tab.

Example, a 4th level Prodigy correctly show a CL of 2 on the "Magic Sphere Abilities Tab" but on "Destruction" (or any other sphere) tab it shows as CL 4. The talents are calculating at the inflated CL as well.

I have not checked all spheres and all classes, but it seems to be consistent. I've already delayed and re-installed all of my Spheres content to make sure I wasn't on an old version.

Currently I have:
SoP v1.44
SoP:E v1.7
SoM v1.11
CoS v1.2
Destroyer's HB v1.9
Diviner's HB v1.1
Auspician's HB v1.0
Battlemage's HB v1.2

 

[TheIronGolem]

With regards to Spheres of Might. There are still a fair number of missing Archtypes, would you be able to give any idea where they fall in your current timetable?

I'll put this on my to-do list for my current bugfix pass, but would you mind listing the archetypes you've found to be missing? Are they all from SoM?

Regarding Might, one of my players was interested in a Technician as the Spheres of Might files went live.
On release, we were told that Technician had implementation difficulties, and would eventually be updated.
Our group hasn't really looked at the class since then.
Just curious where that stands.

If we were choosing, USoP would be our priority.
But not sure what others would choose, and we're just one group out of many.

We haven't ironed out our plans past our current projects (which are in no particular order: bugfix pass, Wild Magic, Abjurer's Handbook).

With one of the latest updates the Caster Level on the individual sphere tabs are effectively double counting casting levels form classes. They however are not double counting modifiers from implements or from Global Spherecatsing Level Modifiers in the adjustment tab.

We've noticed some problems with calculating CL, this among them. I've been working on that for a bit now as part of the bugfix pass. Among other things, this has involved some updates to allow CL to properly track typed bonuses and prevent incorrect stacking when dealing with bonuses to CL of a particular talent, sphere, or overall casting ability.

 

[GreyLurker]

For Spheres of Might there are only 3 missing
Blacksmith - Iron Chef and Techsmith
Thaumaturge - Savant

There actually seems to be something kind of weird going on with the Blacksmith Archtypes in general. There are no valid ones in the list but when I looked at it under "Everything" it seemed to have a lot of Bloodrager Archetypes listed under Blacksmith

 

[Vallaki]

The DCs on the individual Sphere tabs seems to calculate off the CL on the main Magic Sphere Abilities, rather than the CL on the individual sphere tabs. This may have been brought up before, but I don't recall.

A few additional things I've noticed with the Prodigy class from CoS:

1) When you select additional class skills (the class gets three skills to add to it's class list) it throws an error if you already have a skill as class skills from another class or if you later get that as a class skill from another class. It should validate that the selected skills chosen aren't on the static Prodigy list, but doesn't need to validate that they aren't already a class skill overall. There are a couple of reasons you may want to choose a skill to be on the prodigy list that you already have as a class skill from another source; the most obvious is so it would work with the prodigy "Steady Skill" ability.

2) On the Prodigy tab, in the ability list Steady Skills has a free form text box rather than a drop down of class skills.

3) Unbroken sequence has a drop down for a skill choice, but no choice is needed for that ability.

4) On the "Sequence" tab, once you select an opener, it says "Add new openers (1 left)" You should only be able to select one opener. Additionally, when you add an Imbuement, it always tells you that you have overspent.

 

[Ualaa]

Sage bug.

The esoteric stuff they gain at every second level.
There are a lot of monk things listed amidst the Sage options.

If you type at the top, Champions it filters out everything that is not from that source.
I've not seen anything that suggests Monk specials are valid choices for all four types of Sage (Enhancer, Infuser, etc), but maybe they are and I missed it.

 

[TheIronGolem]

2) On the Prodigy tab, in the ability list Steady Skills has a free form text box rather than a drop down of class skills.

This isn't actually a bug. I used a text input here because the Aasimar FCB allows adding extra skills to be used with the ability, and class abilities won't show more than two selectors.

But you got me thinking about it, and I came up with another solution, so the next update will use a selector for Steady Skill, plus another on the Background tab for each additional skill from the FCB.

 

[TheIronGolem]

Sage bug.

The esoteric stuff they gain at every second level.
There are a lot of monk things listed amidst the Sage options.

If you type at the top, Champions it filters out everything that is not from that source.
I've not seen anything that suggests Monk specials are valid choices for all four types of Sage (Enhancer, Infuser, etc), but maybe they are and I missed it.

Page 16 from CotS: "Ki Power: The sage gains a ki power from the unchained monk list, treating their sage level as their monk level for all purposes of the gained ability, including determining whether or not the sage qualifies to take it."

This is similar to how Rogues and Ninjas can take each others' abilities.

 

[Ualaa]

Thanks.
More options is better than fewer options.

 

[Ualaa]

Another Sage potential bug.

The Skill Focus bonus feats are only granting +3 bonus to a skill when your only ranks in the skill are bonus ranks by virtue of having talents within a sphere that corresponds to that skill.

At ten or more ranks within a skill, the Skill Focus feat should grant a +6 bonus.

If I give the character actual skill ranks in such skills, the bonus becomes the correct +6.

 

[TheIronGolem]

Another Sage potential bug.

The Skill Focus bonus feats are only granting +3 bonus to a skill when your only ranks in the skill are bonus ranks by virtue of having talents within a sphere that corresponds to that skill.

At ten or more ranks within a skill, the Skill Focus feat should grant a +6 bonus.

If I give the character actual skill ranks in such skills, the bonus becomes the correct +6.

I believe this is actually a Hero Lab bug.

When SoM grants ranks in a sphere's associated skill, it does so by adding to that skill's skExtRanks field, the same way a Fighter's Versatile Training ability does. I tested just now with a vanilla Fighter, and Skill Focus is not granting the full bonus to characters with ranks gained through Versatile Training either. A quick look at the code for Skill Focus will show that this is because it doesn't count the value of the skExtRanks field when deciding whether to increase the bonus.

I can think of one or two ways I could work around this, but I would prefer to either let Lone Wolf fix the feat behavior, or find confirmation that this is actually intended and rules-compliant before I change anything. If anyone knows of a confirmed Paizo ruling on this matter, I'd appreciate a link.

 

[Shadowtalon]

Infinite Loop tied to Armiger

I have SoM 1.11 installed, and every time I equip a customized weapon it starts triggering infinite loops. The Armiger is also still missing his Focusing switch ability.

 

[TheIronGolem]

I have SoM 1.11 installed, and every time I equip a customized weapon it starts triggering infinite loops. The Armiger is also still missing his Focusing switch ability.

Both of these are fixed in my current build, which I expect to release sometime in the next week or so.

I've also fixed another infinite-loop error that was being caused by the Symbiotic Knight archetype. If anyone else has noticed infinite-loop messages that trigger from any other Spheres content, please let me know so I can include a fix in the next update.

 

[Ualaa]

Possibly a bug on Martial Mageknight archetype, unless I'm reading it very wrong.

A base MK, at 20th level has:
- 2 base magic talents (2)
- a magic talent at 1st level (1)
- a magic talent at each even level (10)

For a total of 13 magic talents.

The archetype is saying, whenever they gain a magic talent (not the free 2 for magic tradition) they can choose to gain a martial talent instead.

Whether I duplicate the Mageknight and then add the Martial Mageknight archetype, or I make a MK of first level, give the archetype and then add MK levels... the result seems the same.

The martial mageknight has 13 magic talents and 11 combat talents plus 1 martial tradition.

If I go to the Mageknight tab, all the blended training choices (1st, plus every even level) are set to Combat Talent.
But the character is still getting their 13 magic talents.

If I change the Blended Talent from the default Combat to Magic for each selection, then I end up with a MK who has 0 combat talents, 1 martial tradition, and 24 magic talents.

 

[Ualaa]

I believe this is actually a Hero Lab bug.

When SoM grants ranks in a sphere's associated skill, it does so by adding to that skill's skExtRanks field, the same way a Fighter's Versatile Training ability does. I tested just now with a vanilla Fighter, and Skill Focus is not granting the full bonus to characters with ranks gained through Versatile Training either. A quick look at the code for Skill Focus will show that this is because it doesn't count the value of the skExtRanks field when deciding whether to increase the bonus.

I can think of one or two ways I could work around this, but I would prefer to either let Lone Wolf fix the feat behavior, or find confirmation that this is actually intended and rules-compliant before I change anything. If anyone knows of a confirmed Paizo ruling on this matter, I'd appreciate a link.

*EDIT* - Asked on the Paizo boards: https://paizo.com/threads/rzs42yal?Virtual-skill-ranks-Skill-Focus#1
But awaiting an answer.

Digging a little on the Paizo boards...
A lot of these seem to be answered by non-Paizo people, but no one is then correcting them.
Not sure if that counts a rules ruling or not.

Most of the search is either the word Versatile or Training, not much that are actually the two words together.
The only mention I saw of Skill Focus was the bard's performance which was via virtual ranks but not directly asking if virtual ranks get the higher bonus at 10+ virtual ranks in the skill.

From the wording, I think it would since you're counting as having the ranks and it's not a bonus. As per the first question, except the response was from a player, not from a Paizo Staff.

https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2taom?Fighters-Versatile-Training#1
Question on whether the Fighter gains the +3 bonus for trained skill with Versatile Training.
Answer: The fighter is gaining actual ranks, rather than a +X bonus to a skill, so they should act like skill points in the skill and get the +3 bonus.
Not a Paizo answer, but no one contradicted the poster.


https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2jueg?Versatile-Performance#1
Asking if bard's virtual ranks in two skills by virtue of having the Performance that is used in the place of two skills, do they need skill focus in the skill or in the versatile performance skill.
Answer: The rules say they use their total bonus from Versatile Performance (which would include skill focus in that) in place of their relevant skill it's replacing.
That doesn't mention +3 or +6 bonus at 10th.

 

[TheIronGolem]

Possibly a bug on Martial Mageknight archetype, unless I'm reading it very wrong.

I checked this out and found that the archetype script was trying to to remove the stock talents from the Armorist instead of the Mageknight. Good catch.

*EDIT* - Asked on the Paizo boards: https://paizo.com/threads/rzs42yal?Virtual-skill-ranks-Skill-Focus#1
But awaiting an answer.

Digging a little on the Paizo boards...
A lot of these seem to be answered by non-Paizo people, but no one is then correcting them.
Not sure if that counts a rules ruling or not.

I figured out a solution that lets me fix Skill Focus for associated skills independently of LW, so that'll be in the next release as well.

 

[Magicdealer]

This may not be the right place to ask, but will ultimate spheres be getting their own hero lab files release separate from the existing ones or will the changes be wrapped up into the current modules?

I've just been introduced to the system but the group has already switched to ultimate so I don't want to buy the original files if they're not going to be updated for ultimate. I'd appreciate any clarification you can give me. Thanks!

 

[Ualaa]

I'd imagine separate, because assume you wish to use the original release and have nothing to do with the revisions within the Ultimate Spheres of Power.
In that case, the newer version with undesired changes, is in conflict with your version.

Let's also assume that my group would like the newer version, as we like the changes.
Several of the existing talents have disappeared (such as Greater Blast, within Destruction) and several talents have been wrapped into other talents so you get more bang for buck (such as Greater Healing each combined with various condition cure talents, instead of being stand alone talents).
If my group is using the newer version, we don't want Greater Healing (as stand alone talents) or Greater Blast (at all... since it seems to have been removed for balance(?) or some other reason).

I couldn't really see the practicality of one file and a toggle option for whether to use the old or the new.
The Ultimate files will be quite a bit of coding, and were sold as part of the kickstarter (and will be available for purchase eventually, I'd assume).
In addition to some people having bought both, it will likely be easier to code and maintain them as separate sets of files.
The original files will likely be unchanging (unless a future Hero Lab release breaks something).
The new files could potentially be subject to errata, but any changes to Spheres as a system would be to the current/most recent iteration.

We don't have our hard covers yet, so are still using the original system (and I'm buying the older files, as they're released) with hero lab.
I'd imagine a lot of the existing stuff would serve as a framework for the new system, but that there will still be significant effort to create the new files.
Adam, on the kickstarter page and in answer to someone's question, said the new files are being worked on but that he has no ETA.

 

[TheIronGolem]

Ualaa is correct; USoP will be a separate product for both business and technical reasons, as well as to give players the option of choosing which version of Spheres they want to use.