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There are 9 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. compositions...
From: "Robert Feuillerat" <R_A_Feuillerat@hotmail.com>
2. Re: compositions...
From: "Mr. Green" <mach_5@rocketmail.com>
3. Comp. group not appearing
From: Steve Mansfield <steve@gametools.com>
4. Comp. Groups - never mind...
From: Steve Mansfield <steve@gametools.com>
5. Re: Comp. group not appearing
From: "Mr. Green" <mach_5@rocketmail.com>
6. armybuilder@yahoogroups.com
From: Steve Mansfield <steve@gametools.com>
7. Re: compositions...
From: Colen McAlister <colen@wolflair.com>
8. Re: Infinite loop warning
From: Rob Bowes <rob@wolflair.com>
9. Variable number of weapon with different stats
From: "anton_denmark" <tfa@ifs.ku.dk>
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 17:05:45 -0000
From: "Robert Feuillerat" <R_A_Feuillerat@hotmail.com>
Subject: compositions...
I'm trying to establish the composition group rules and am not sure
how to establish that.
In the OGRE MINI's Rules there is no "limit this army to"...#; %; pts.
(they show you TO&E's and some sample forces but the writers (IMO)
assumed a logical approach to force construction would be applied by
the players). Most of the time it's "By scenario" and certain items
have to be selected.
For the most part a "force" can be Infantry, Armor (incl'ds Arty,
APC's), GEV's and/or OGRE's. In some scenarios it's an OGRE v. a
force of INF, ARM & GEV's defending a Command Post from the OGRE OR
OGRE v. OGRE OR forces of INF, ARMOR and GEV's v. another force of
INF, ARMOR and GEV's.
Everything is point based, so a MKVI OGRE @ 210 pts could go against
180 - 200 pts of INF,ARM, and GEV's or 2 MKIII @ 100 pts ea.
Depending on the scenario and terrain these numbers can be adjusted
up or down and is at the discretion of the scenario designer.
Maybe I pick the wrong game to build in AB...
Thanks for the help.
Robert
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:30:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Mr. Green" <mach_5@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: compositions...
> Everything is point based, so a MKVI OGRE @ 210 pts could go against
> 180 - 200 pts of INF,ARM, and GEV's or 2 MKIII @ 100 pts ea.
> Depending on the scenario and terrain these numbers can be adjusted
> up or down and is at the discretion of the scenario designer.
If everything is point based then use the pts system. Each person would
design their force to a specific points limit depending on the scenario
being played. If you know the different scenarios before hand you can
even set validation that is scenario specific by using different race
modes, and you can also set which units are available in different
scenarios and which ones are required and how many.
Mark
--- Robert Feuillerat <R_A_Feuillerat@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I'm trying to establish the composition group rules and am not sure
> how to establish that.
>
> In the OGRE MINI's Rules there is no "limit this army to"...#; %; pts.
> (they show you TO&E's and some sample forces but the writers (IMO)
> assumed a logical approach to force construction would be applied by
> the players). Most of the time it's "By scenario" and certain items
> have to be selected.
>
> For the most part a "force" can be Infantry, Armor (incl'ds Arty,
> APC's), GEV's and/or OGRE's. In some scenarios it's an OGRE v. a
> force of INF, ARM & GEV's defending a Command Post from the OGRE OR
> OGRE v. OGRE OR forces of INF, ARMOR and GEV's v. another force of
> INF, ARMOR and GEV's.
>
> Everything is point based, so a MKVI OGRE @ 210 pts could go against
> 180 - 200 pts of INF,ARM, and GEV's or 2 MKIII @ 100 pts ea.
> Depending on the scenario and terrain these numbers can be adjusted
> up or down and is at the discretion of the scenario designer.
>
> Maybe I pick the wrong game to build in AB...
>
> Thanks for the help.
>
> Robert
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, email
>
> armybuilder-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
=====
WF6 Army Builder File Manager
Direwolf FAQ Council - Army Builder Liaison
-
Warhammer Club - Vancouver, BC
http://www.WCP-Vancouver.com
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:38:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: Steve Mansfield <steve@gametools.com>
Subject: Comp. group not appearing
I've got a problem I hope someone can explain to me why it's occurring:
I have four comp. group in my datadef, and three seem to work just fine. Two
of them are pretty generic, and two are for some specialised units
(bloodbowl, big guys and star players)
Anyway, I've also created two races that correspond to these comp. groups. All
of the star players show up as expected in AB just fine, and are defined as
being part of the 'star player' comp. group. The bigguys, whose race is defined
exactly (for now) the same as the star players race, except in name and prefix,
do not appear at all, an in fact their filter button doesn't appear. All units
in the race have selected the bigguys comp. group, and the comp. group does
appear in the datadef file. Am I doing something totally silly here?
--
Steve (That's Mr. Bugman to you, lad...)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:48:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: Steve Mansfield <steve@gametools.com>
Subject: Comp. Groups - never mind...
But of course, the *instant* you ask a question, the answer will come...
I hadn't edited the other races' comp. group rules to include bigguys...
Now, everybody all together, let's get a nice, loud DUH!
--
Steve (That's Mr. Bugman to you, lad...)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 11:15:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Mr. Green" <mach_5@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Comp. group not appearing
> The bigguys, whose race is defined
> exactly (for now) the same as the star players race, except in name and
> prefix,
> do not appear at all, an in fact their filter button doesn't appear.
Isn't the prefix how AB determines which race they belong to? If they
have a different prefix they won't show up for the same race unless you
give them the race:** attribute so that they count as the other race as
well.
Mark
=====
WF6 Army Builder File Manager
Direwolf FAQ Council - Army Builder Liaison
-
Warhammer Club - Vancouver, BC
http://www.WCP-Vancouver.com
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:47:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: Steve Mansfield <steve@gametools.com>
Subject: armybuilder@yahoogroups.com
But of course, the *instant* you ask a question, the answer will come...
I hadn't edited the other races' comp. group rules to include bigguys...
Now, everybody all together, let's get a nice, loud DUH!
--
Steve (That's Mr. Bugman to you, lad...)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 7
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 11:48:52 -0700
From: Colen McAlister <colen@wolflair.com>
Subject: Re: compositions...
At 05:05 PM 7/3/2003 +0000, you wrote:
>I'm trying to establish the composition group rules and am not sure
>how to establish that.
>
>In the OGRE MINI's Rules there is no "limit this army to"...#; %; pts.
>(they show you TO&E's and some sample forces but the writers (IMO)
>assumed a logical approach to force construction would be applied by
>the players). Most of the time it's "By scenario" and certain items
>have to be selected.
OK, so in the basic rules there are absolutely no limits to what you can
take, except an overall "X points" limit?
>For the most part a "force" can be Infantry, Armor (incl'ds Arty,
>APC's), GEV's and/or OGRE's. In some scenarios it's an OGRE v. a
>force of INF, ARM & GEV's defending a Command Post from the OGRE OR
>OGRE v. OGRE OR forces of INF, ARMOR and GEV's v. another force of
>INF, ARMOR and GEV's.
For this you'd want to use modes.
You could have the default mode be 'no restrictions', so you could take
any. If there were common scenarios that people played, that were "1 OGRE
vs an army", the other modes could use composition rules appropriately (for
example, limiting the army to a single OGRE). That way the user has a
choice of what to use.
>Everything is point based, so a MKVI OGRE @ 210 pts could go against
>180 - 200 pts of INF,ARM, and GEV's or 2 MKIII @ 100 pts ea.
>Depending on the scenario and terrain these numbers can be adjusted
>up or down and is at the discretion of the scenario designer.
And for this, just use the points limit that the user can choose. That way
two players can say "Let's play a 250 point game, I'll take an OGRE, you
can take the opposing army" and both set an appropriate points limit and
use the relevant scenario.
Does this help?
--
Colen McAlister (colen@wolflair.com)
Lone Wolf Development www.wolflair.com
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 8
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 12:15:57 -0700
From: Rob Bowes <rob@wolflair.com>
Subject: Re: Infinite loop warning
The problem is most likely that you have a unit as the child of itself.
This is a no-no within AB. When AB was first written 6 years ago,
performance was a bigger concern because computers weren't nearly as
powerful as they are today. AB includes a performance optimization that
pre-calculates the entire possible hierarchy when you add a unit. If a unit
is a child of itself, you'll get the infinite recursion error.
The proper solution is to have an alternate unit for use as the child. With
inheritance, you can do this pretty easily without having to re-enter
everything. Alternately, you can just duplicate the unit within ABCreator
and tweak it appropriately.
Hope this helps,
Rob
At 07:25 PM 6/29/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>I am working on a data file and army builder reports a serious error that
>resulted in an infinite loop. The problem is, I don't think the file has an
>infinite loop. Here is what I'm doing:
>
>I have a unit called Platoon with two options HQ with two AUTO option links
>for HQ and SQUAD.
>
>Since HQ works fine, we can ignore that I think.
>
>Anyway, the SQUAD option adds a size 3:3 unit called 'squad'
>
>Now squad has four auto option links for:
>Squad Leader (adds apropriate child unit to squad size 1:1)
>Asst Squad Leader (adds a apropriate child unit to squad size 1:1)
>Machine Gunner (adds a apropriate child unit to squad size 1:1)
>Riflemen (adds a child unit to squad size 7:7)
>
>These last child units have no options.
>
>Does anyone know which is happening or if it possible to increase Army
>Builder's recursion depth or something?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rob Bowes (rob@wolflair.com) (559) 658-6995
Lone Wolf Development www.wolflair.com
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 9
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 10:36:49 -0000
From: "anton_denmark" <tfa@ifs.ku.dk>
Subject: Variable number of weapon with different stats
Hi all
As I'm started to play Space Marine Epic (Great game!), I looked
everywhere for the ab datafiles for it, but found out (in this group)
that these did not exists.
Then I decided to make them myself (I have a little experience with
modifying the datafiles).
I have created the datadef files and converted it and are beginning
to do the units, but....
Units in ESM have a variable number of weapons (0 or more) with
different statline, and I can't figure out how to represent those
with "unit like" statlines. Most units will have fixed weaponry, but
some (Titans) can select between some. Fixed weapon and chooseable
will not have to be represented the same way.
Hope someone understood the question and is able to answer
Anton
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/IMSolB/TM
---------------------------------------------------------------------~->
To unsubscribe from this group, email
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------------------------------------------------------------------------
There are 9 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. compositions...
From: "Robert Feuillerat" <R_A_Feuillerat@hotmail.com>
2. Re: compositions...
From: "Mr. Green" <mach_5@rocketmail.com>
3. Comp. group not appearing
From: Steve Mansfield <steve@gametools.com>
4. Comp. Groups - never mind...
From: Steve Mansfield <steve@gametools.com>
5. Re: Comp. group not appearing
From: "Mr. Green" <mach_5@rocketmail.com>
6. armybuilder@yahoogroups.com
From: Steve Mansfield <steve@gametools.com>
7. Re: compositions...
From: Colen McAlister <colen@wolflair.com>
8. Re: Infinite loop warning
From: Rob Bowes <rob@wolflair.com>
9. Variable number of weapon with different stats
From: "anton_denmark" <tfa@ifs.ku.dk>
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 17:05:45 -0000
From: "Robert Feuillerat" <R_A_Feuillerat@hotmail.com>
Subject: compositions...
I'm trying to establish the composition group rules and am not sure
how to establish that.
In the OGRE MINI's Rules there is no "limit this army to"...#; %; pts.
(they show you TO&E's and some sample forces but the writers (IMO)
assumed a logical approach to force construction would be applied by
the players). Most of the time it's "By scenario" and certain items
have to be selected.
For the most part a "force" can be Infantry, Armor (incl'ds Arty,
APC's), GEV's and/or OGRE's. In some scenarios it's an OGRE v. a
force of INF, ARM & GEV's defending a Command Post from the OGRE OR
OGRE v. OGRE OR forces of INF, ARMOR and GEV's v. another force of
INF, ARMOR and GEV's.
Everything is point based, so a MKVI OGRE @ 210 pts could go against
180 - 200 pts of INF,ARM, and GEV's or 2 MKIII @ 100 pts ea.
Depending on the scenario and terrain these numbers can be adjusted
up or down and is at the discretion of the scenario designer.
Maybe I pick the wrong game to build in AB...
Thanks for the help.
Robert
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:30:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Mr. Green" <mach_5@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: compositions...
> Everything is point based, so a MKVI OGRE @ 210 pts could go against
> 180 - 200 pts of INF,ARM, and GEV's or 2 MKIII @ 100 pts ea.
> Depending on the scenario and terrain these numbers can be adjusted
> up or down and is at the discretion of the scenario designer.
If everything is point based then use the pts system. Each person would
design their force to a specific points limit depending on the scenario
being played. If you know the different scenarios before hand you can
even set validation that is scenario specific by using different race
modes, and you can also set which units are available in different
scenarios and which ones are required and how many.
Mark
--- Robert Feuillerat <R_A_Feuillerat@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I'm trying to establish the composition group rules and am not sure
> how to establish that.
>
> In the OGRE MINI's Rules there is no "limit this army to"...#; %; pts.
> (they show you TO&E's and some sample forces but the writers (IMO)
> assumed a logical approach to force construction would be applied by
> the players). Most of the time it's "By scenario" and certain items
> have to be selected.
>
> For the most part a "force" can be Infantry, Armor (incl'ds Arty,
> APC's), GEV's and/or OGRE's. In some scenarios it's an OGRE v. a
> force of INF, ARM & GEV's defending a Command Post from the OGRE OR
> OGRE v. OGRE OR forces of INF, ARMOR and GEV's v. another force of
> INF, ARMOR and GEV's.
>
> Everything is point based, so a MKVI OGRE @ 210 pts could go against
> 180 - 200 pts of INF,ARM, and GEV's or 2 MKIII @ 100 pts ea.
> Depending on the scenario and terrain these numbers can be adjusted
> up or down and is at the discretion of the scenario designer.
>
> Maybe I pick the wrong game to build in AB...
>
> Thanks for the help.
>
> Robert
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, email
>
> armybuilder-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
=====
WF6 Army Builder File Manager
Direwolf FAQ Council - Army Builder Liaison
-
Warhammer Club - Vancouver, BC
http://www.WCP-Vancouver.com
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:38:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: Steve Mansfield <steve@gametools.com>
Subject: Comp. group not appearing
I've got a problem I hope someone can explain to me why it's occurring:
I have four comp. group in my datadef, and three seem to work just fine. Two
of them are pretty generic, and two are for some specialised units
(bloodbowl, big guys and star players)
Anyway, I've also created two races that correspond to these comp. groups. All
of the star players show up as expected in AB just fine, and are defined as
being part of the 'star player' comp. group. The bigguys, whose race is defined
exactly (for now) the same as the star players race, except in name and prefix,
do not appear at all, an in fact their filter button doesn't appear. All units
in the race have selected the bigguys comp. group, and the comp. group does
appear in the datadef file. Am I doing something totally silly here?
--
Steve (That's Mr. Bugman to you, lad...)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:48:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: Steve Mansfield <steve@gametools.com>
Subject: Comp. Groups - never mind...
But of course, the *instant* you ask a question, the answer will come...
I hadn't edited the other races' comp. group rules to include bigguys...
Now, everybody all together, let's get a nice, loud DUH!
--
Steve (That's Mr. Bugman to you, lad...)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 11:15:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Mr. Green" <mach_5@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: Comp. group not appearing
> The bigguys, whose race is defined
> exactly (for now) the same as the star players race, except in name and
> prefix,
> do not appear at all, an in fact their filter button doesn't appear.
Isn't the prefix how AB determines which race they belong to? If they
have a different prefix they won't show up for the same race unless you
give them the race:** attribute so that they count as the other race as
well.
Mark
=====
WF6 Army Builder File Manager
Direwolf FAQ Council - Army Builder Liaison
-
Warhammer Club - Vancouver, BC
http://www.WCP-Vancouver.com
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 10:47:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: Steve Mansfield <steve@gametools.com>
Subject: armybuilder@yahoogroups.com
But of course, the *instant* you ask a question, the answer will come...
I hadn't edited the other races' comp. group rules to include bigguys...
Now, everybody all together, let's get a nice, loud DUH!
--
Steve (That's Mr. Bugman to you, lad...)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 7
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 11:48:52 -0700
From: Colen McAlister <colen@wolflair.com>
Subject: Re: compositions...
At 05:05 PM 7/3/2003 +0000, you wrote:
>I'm trying to establish the composition group rules and am not sure
>how to establish that.
>
>In the OGRE MINI's Rules there is no "limit this army to"...#; %; pts.
>(they show you TO&E's and some sample forces but the writers (IMO)
>assumed a logical approach to force construction would be applied by
>the players). Most of the time it's "By scenario" and certain items
>have to be selected.
OK, so in the basic rules there are absolutely no limits to what you can
take, except an overall "X points" limit?
>For the most part a "force" can be Infantry, Armor (incl'ds Arty,
>APC's), GEV's and/or OGRE's. In some scenarios it's an OGRE v. a
>force of INF, ARM & GEV's defending a Command Post from the OGRE OR
>OGRE v. OGRE OR forces of INF, ARMOR and GEV's v. another force of
>INF, ARMOR and GEV's.
For this you'd want to use modes.
You could have the default mode be 'no restrictions', so you could take
any. If there were common scenarios that people played, that were "1 OGRE
vs an army", the other modes could use composition rules appropriately (for
example, limiting the army to a single OGRE). That way the user has a
choice of what to use.
>Everything is point based, so a MKVI OGRE @ 210 pts could go against
>180 - 200 pts of INF,ARM, and GEV's or 2 MKIII @ 100 pts ea.
>Depending on the scenario and terrain these numbers can be adjusted
>up or down and is at the discretion of the scenario designer.
And for this, just use the points limit that the user can choose. That way
two players can say "Let's play a 250 point game, I'll take an OGRE, you
can take the opposing army" and both set an appropriate points limit and
use the relevant scenario.
Does this help?
--
Colen McAlister (colen@wolflair.com)
Lone Wolf Development www.wolflair.com
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 8
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 12:15:57 -0700
From: Rob Bowes <rob@wolflair.com>
Subject: Re: Infinite loop warning
The problem is most likely that you have a unit as the child of itself.
This is a no-no within AB. When AB was first written 6 years ago,
performance was a bigger concern because computers weren't nearly as
powerful as they are today. AB includes a performance optimization that
pre-calculates the entire possible hierarchy when you add a unit. If a unit
is a child of itself, you'll get the infinite recursion error.
The proper solution is to have an alternate unit for use as the child. With
inheritance, you can do this pretty easily without having to re-enter
everything. Alternately, you can just duplicate the unit within ABCreator
and tweak it appropriately.
Hope this helps,
Rob
At 07:25 PM 6/29/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>I am working on a data file and army builder reports a serious error that
>resulted in an infinite loop. The problem is, I don't think the file has an
>infinite loop. Here is what I'm doing:
>
>I have a unit called Platoon with two options HQ with two AUTO option links
>for HQ and SQUAD.
>
>Since HQ works fine, we can ignore that I think.
>
>Anyway, the SQUAD option adds a size 3:3 unit called 'squad'
>
>Now squad has four auto option links for:
>Squad Leader (adds apropriate child unit to squad size 1:1)
>Asst Squad Leader (adds a apropriate child unit to squad size 1:1)
>Machine Gunner (adds a apropriate child unit to squad size 1:1)
>Riflemen (adds a child unit to squad size 7:7)
>
>These last child units have no options.
>
>Does anyone know which is happening or if it possible to increase Army
>Builder's recursion depth or something?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rob Bowes (rob@wolflair.com) (559) 658-6995
Lone Wolf Development www.wolflair.com
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 9
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 10:36:49 -0000
From: "anton_denmark" <tfa@ifs.ku.dk>
Subject: Variable number of weapon with different stats
Hi all
As I'm started to play Space Marine Epic (Great game!), I looked
everywhere for the ab datafiles for it, but found out (in this group)
that these did not exists.
Then I decided to make them myself (I have a little experience with
modifying the datafiles).
I have created the datadef files and converted it and are beginning
to do the units, but....
Units in ESM have a variable number of weapons (0 or more) with
different statline, and I can't figure out how to represent those
with "unit like" statlines. Most units will have fixed weaponry, but
some (Titans) can select between some. Fixed weapon and chooseable
will not have to be represented the same way.
Hope someone understood the question and is able to answer
Anton
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/