D20 Modern?

[TCArknight]

Ok, with all the advances to the program going on, any chance of getting d20 Modern gameset anytime soon? Maybe as part of the d20 OGL?

TC

 

[ozchandler]

as i'm getting ready to run a t2k d20m campaign soon, i hope this happens asap

 

[Mathias]

There's a thread in the Hero Lab discussion forum where you can vote for which game systems should be our priorities.

 

[Ghaleon]

voted there but not encouraged by how low it was on the list of those voted on. am very hopeful about a possible D20 option for the HL. currently trying to figure out how to create a custom class for reg D20 and make the classes myself, not going well.

 

[Lawful_g]

What are your problems? I'll be happy to give guidance.

 

[TCArknight]

I really think the biggest difference between d20 3.5 and d20 Modern is the Talent Trees and the Wealth system.

I'm looking at it because I recently got involved in an online Sidewinder:Recoiled game and had no character generator. PCGen has the dataset for it, but it seems a bit buggy.

Here's a couple of ways I see things:

1) Talent trees - Could be done through Class Special abilities maybe?

2) Advanced Classes - Done as Prestige classes perhaps? Just a lot fewer requirements?

3) Occupations - These may be complicated. They provide either a couple of new Class skills, a +1 to a couple of Class skills if your base class at 1st level has the skills chosen already, and possibly one of two or three feats.

4) No alignments - Would need to remove the alignments from D20

5) Base Classes - All existing classes would need to go away and be replaced by the D20Modern base classes.

6) Action Points would need to be a part of the system by default

7) Without a base skeleton data for d20, not sure how to duplicate the existing d20 Mechanics. If just copy the data to a new dataset, then the core classes, etc remain...

Those are some of the major differences I see right off. I was planning on playing around with it this weekend (Along with getting more of the spells from Complete Warrior entered... ) but if could get started early, that would be great. Maybe a coordinated team effort?

Thomas

 

[Lawful_g]

Don't know much about the system, so I'll ask a few questions.

1) Are they something you can choose based on your class levels? Because if so, Custom Abilities might work well.

2) Sure, sounds fine

3) Are Occupations something you pick at 1st level? I get that impression. If so, you can probably do this with an Upbringing feat (with skills add or bonus on it), that selects from several specials with unique User tags that are bootstrapping the appropriate feat with a condition that their unique tag is on the hero.

For example...
Occupation: Plumber is the occupation Upbringing feat only available at 1st level. In an Eval Script it checks to see if your class has Profession (plumber) & climb as a class skill, if not, assign it as class skill and done, otherwise add +X bonus.

Perhaps it lets you select from Swingin Pipe, and Plumber's Crack! as a bonus feat. In the custom expression for the upbrining feat, search for things with the User.PlumberSel tag.

Now define 2 new specials which will be bootstrapped to the Upbringing Feat:
Swingin Pipe: It has User.PlumberSel and User.SelSwiPipe. Bootstrapped to it is the actual feat "Swingin Pipe" with a condition that it is not added unless User.SelSwiPipe is on the Hero.
Plumber's Crack!: It also has User.PlumberSel (so it will be among the things choosable by our upbringing feat) and User.SelPlumCrk. Bootstrapped to it is the actual feat "Plumber's Crack!" with a condition that it is not added unless User.SelPlumCrk is on the Hero.

Now go back to the Upbringing feat and write a eval script that says "On selected special, forward the User.Sel? tag to the hero" This way once you make a selection the appropriate User tag will go to the hero, triggering the special you chose to add the correct feat. To see something similar look at Weapon Focus, it also forwards a tag to the hero based on what is selected.

4) I don't know about this one, I would just ignore them.

5) You can hide things in the editor, there is a tab. Alternately, you could make the new base classes and replace the old ones with them.

6) Isn't this one of the house rule things? You can set it as default.

7) I don't understand what you said.

 

[TCArknight]

1) Yes, Talent trees are groups of three or four class abilities. Usually one or two have no prereq. where the others do. A class could gain access to a talent tree from another class, so the abilities would probably need a tag in common or something like fhDefTree or fhISpdTree for the Defensive Talent Tree (Consisting of Evasion, Uncanny Dodge I, Uncanny Dodge II and Defensive Roll abilities) and the Increased Speed Tree (with the Increased Speed, Improved Increased Speed and Advanced Increased Speed abilities). Some also require choices of at least one talent from a specified tree.

The base classes are 10 levels, and gain a Talent on every odd level, and a bonus feat specific to the class on every even level.

2) Cool, sounds workable.

3) Yes, occupations are only chosen at 1st level. Sounds like a possible way to do it.

4) Yeah, for now.

5) That's what I thought, although I'd have to go through and hide every item in d20 that I don't need.. was hoping for a easier way.

6) Yes, it's part of the Unearthed Arcana settings.

7) Yeah, I confused myself too. What I was hoping for was a way to get jsut the d20 mechanics without any of the existing classes, feats, etc. If i needed to I could copy them over, but looks like I'll have to go from the hide it route.

 

[Mathias]

In the editor, for classes, you've seen that they can be set to use the custom abilities of other classes, right? Those tags could be assigned by scripts, rather than being permanently attached to the class.

So, when a class allows other classes access to a talent tree, it can assign the appropriate "Allow Custom Abilities From..." tag to the appropriate classes.

I think if you assigned every custom ability in a talent tree to a specific User tag, making sure to use the same initial letters for each tag, you could put scripts on the classes to loop through all their abilities, forwarding those user tags to the hero, where they can be checked for pre-reqs.

Defensive might be User.TaTrDefens
Increased Speed might be User.TaTrSpeed

Just make sure that all Talent Tree tags start with TaTr, and you can search for tags that fit that pattern with "User.TaTr?"

 

[TCArknight]

Thanks Mathias!

I think that's the way I'll go.

So far, I've managed to do a preclude on all the D20 classes by precluding the class level entries as well as the class entries themselves. The easy part is adding the new 'Hero' class to the mix.

Looking at the class though, there are three things each class has that the normal D20 class doesn't. Ideally, both of these progressions should show on the class' tab similar to

a) Defense Bonus - Class' defense bonus is used to calculate AC. This is in addition to the AC provided by Dex or Equipment.

b) Reputation bonus - A bonus value used to determine whether a chaacter is well known or not known at all. a Fame feat would add +3 to this value while something like a Low Profile feat would add a -3 to the Reputation value.

Suggestions?

 

[Lawful_g]

a) Look at monk AC bonus for level based AC bonus, just remove the no armor or encumbrance bit. Also, It seems like this defense bonus is likely something other feats or whatever will have to check via pre reqs. I'd say make a special called Defense Bonus with a calcvalue (like sneak attack), and have each class bootstrap and add to it. The special will have the script that adds it's value to AC.

b) Also the same suggestion for reputation, special with CalcValue. Feats can add to it.

 

[TCArknight]

Ok, I've got it working.

    <eval phase="PostLevel" priority="10000">
      ~ Add class defense
      ~ As this varies for each class, the formula may change

      var classdef as number
      var mylevel as number
      classdef = 0
      mylevel = #levelcount[cStrongH]

      classdef = (mylevel + 1) / 2
      classdef = round(classdef, 0, -1)
      
      hero.child[xClassDef].field[Value].value += classdef</eval>
    <eval phase="PostLevel" priority="10000" index="2">
      ~ Add Reputation
      ~ As this varies for each class, the formula may change

      var reputation as number
      var mylevel as number
      mylevel = #levelcount[cStrongH]

      reputation = (mylevel - 1) / 4
      reputation = round(reputation , 0, -1)
      
      hero.child[xRepBonus].field[Value].value += reputation</eval>

Now, is there a way to get it showing up on the Class tab instead of it showing up on the Specials tab?

Also, I seem to add the Reputation, I have the Helper.ShowSpec tag on the ability, but when I look at the Selection Tags, the ShowSpec tag isn't there so is not showing on the Special tab. Suggestions?

What do I need to do to add action points to my new class? If I select the AP option from the configure hero, it shows up in the In-Play tab, but I'd also like to have it show in the Specials tab along with my Class Defense and Reputation. When I get to the Advanced classes, How will I change the base points gained for it?

 

[Lawful_g]

Wouldn't you want the AC bonus to be invisible and not show on the Specials tab anyway? It's reflected on the hero by adding to his AC, and pre reqs that require a minimum will detect it's value automatically, so there is no reason for the user to need to see his total AC bonus... I mean, it is fine if it does, but I tend to skew towards not cluttering the Specials tab as much as I can. As for showing on the class tab, you could make a class special for each that calculates it for that class, or alternately just have the class special detect and report the total value.

For reputation not showing on the specials tab, since it is a calcvalue it defaults to showing itself only when it has a value greater than 0. I would look at the specials fields and confirm it is a non 0 value. I suspect either the classes are adding to it too late, or it is calculating too early, so it = 0. Either way the solution is to change around the phase and priority.

I am not familiar with AP or how they work in HL. Maybe disregard the current functionality and make another special with a calcvalue that all classes add to? You could just check the boxes for showing on both special and in play tab.

 

[TCArknight]

Even on the AC calculation on the character sheet, there would be a Class box right with the Dex and Misc. boxes. Having it on the Specials tab I think is best, because each class can add to it, so having it in one place instead of multiple makes sense.

Ah, ok. Is there a way to show it even if it is a 0 value? I've got it set up on the same timing as the class defense, so that seems about right. [EDIT: ok, I can just do a perform assign[Helper.ShowSpec] right after the Calcvalue and it'll show no matter the value.]

As I don't want to rely on the user to select the AP option, I think I'll do it like the others and make a special. However, I would like it to also appear on the In-play tab like charges, how do I get that working? I haven't been able to get it showing with using the checkboxes in the editor..

 

[TCArknight]

Now, the toughest thing I've come up to so far is this:

D20 Modern has the following weapons feats:

Archaic Weapon Proficiency - All standard 'Archaic' weapons sword, bow, etc.
Exotic Weapon Proficiency - Choose specific Exotic melee weapon
Personal Firearms Proficiency - Handguns, rifles, etc
Advanced Firearms proficiency - (no penalty for Autofire)
Exotic Firearms Proficiency - choose Cannons, HMG, Grenade Launcher, Rocket Launcher
Simple Weapons Proficiency - clubs, knives, etc.

How do I do new 'Proficiency Required' (Weapon tab) and 'Select From' (Feat tab) categories to fit these?

If I can't, how can I get these working?

Any help would be appreciated.
Thomas

 

[Lawful_g]

You'll have to make the various weapons with User tags specific to their category, then make feats for the various sorts. Example is User.ProfArch for the Archaic.

 

[TCArknight]

That worked just fine!

Would you or anyone else happen to have the ids of all the d20 weapons? Would make is so much easier to copy into the preclude tags.... It's going slow enough with the feats as it is.

 

[Mathias]

If you have two copies of HL open, then you can have two copies of the editor open. In the second copy, you can leave it open to the weapons tab in the middle of a "New (Copy)", and look up the Ids there.

 

[TCArknight]

3) Are Occupations something you pick at 1st level? I get that impression. If so, you can probably do this with an Upbringing feat (with skills add or bonus on it), that selects from several specials with unique User tags that are bootstrapping the appropriate feat with a condition that their unique tag is on the hero.

For example...
Occupation: Plumber is the occupation Upbringing feat only available at 1st level. In an Eval Script it checks to see if your class has Profession (plumber) & climb as a class skill, if not, assign it as class skill and done, otherwise add +X bonus.

Perhaps it lets you select from Swingin Pipe, and Plumber's Crack! as a bonus feat. In the custom expression for the upbrining feat, search for things with the User.PlumberSel tag.

Now define 2 new specials which will be bootstrapped to the Upbringing Feat:
Swingin Pipe: It has User.PlumberSel and User.SelSwiPipe. Bootstrapped to it is the actual feat "Swingin Pipe" with a condition that it is not added unless User.SelSwiPipe is on the Hero.
Plumber's Crack!: It also has User.PlumberSel (so it will be among the things choosable by our upbringing feat) and User.SelPlumCrk. Bootstrapped to it is the actual feat "Plumber's Crack!" with a condition that it is not added unless User.SelPlumCrk is on the Hero.

Now go back to the Upbringing feat and write a eval script that says "On selected special, forward the User.Sel? tag to the hero" This way once you make a selection the appropriate User tag will go to the hero, triggering the special you chose to add the correct feat. To see something similar look at Weapon Focus, it also forwards a tag to the hero based on what is selected.

Ok, after getting all the basic feats entered, I'm tackling Occupations.

A) I've got an Occupation Feat as Unique bootstrapped to the Class, so that the first class to add a level is the one that adds the feat. It also doesn't appear in the Feat selection options for anything then because the hero already has it.

B) The actual occupations are the tricky part - Each occupation doesn't just add one or two skills as class skills, they add a choice of two or three from several. If the hero has the chosen skill as a class skill, they get a +1, otherwise it's made a class skill for all classes, not just the one at 1st level.

For example, the Academic Occupation allows choice of 3 skills to become permanent class skills. These are chosen between Computer Use, Craft (Writing), Decipher Script, Gather Information, Knowledge (Several different ones), Research, or a new Read/Write Language or a new Speak Language.

The Adventurer Occupation allows a choice of 2 skills from a specific list, and also provides Archaic Weapons Proficiency, Brawl or Personal Firearms Proficiency as a bonus feat.

Would I need to create a new Special related to each of the skills as well as one for each occupation itself?

 

[Mathias]

Can you re-use the Expert class's "Select a Class Skill" mechanics? Just add a bonus while you're there?

Just curious, what is the occupation feat doing? Why does it need to be there?

Also, the class helper is already unique, why not bootstrap the feat from there?