Complicated racial ability

[Paragon]

I assume these are done in EvalScripts field?

 

[CapedCrusader]

Correct.

 

[Paragon]

Okay, I now started to do this but I realized there's a basic problem: what kind of Tag do I use for this? If I'm reading it right, there's no obvious way to assign a custom tag, so is there something, well, generic I can use to have the skill blocking lock for, and then have the Edge delete?

 

[zarlor]

And that's EXACTLY the problem I have when folks keep telling me to use tags for stuff. I can't seem to make a custom tag on the fly. Presumably this has something to do with the stuff in the tags.1st file, but I just have no clue on that part. I figured I was just clueless. *shrug*

 

[Paragon]

I found how to do that, I think, but its kind of not what I want to do here, since I want this .user file to be portable by itself. I don't mind using another tag, but I need to know one that's not going to have other impacts.

 

[Paragon]

Hmm. Maybe a user tag with the name of the trait will work; at least I could assign one without the program objecting.

 

[CapedCrusader]

If a tag group is set to be dynamic, new tags can be added on the fly. Just create something, and then open the user file and manually add the new tag to it, and include the name field. It can then be assigned to any other items. Both the Hero and User tag groups are dynamic, and are designed with this in mind.

 

[Paragon]

If a tag group is set to be dynamic, new tags can be added on the fly. Just create something, and then open the user file and manually add the new tag to it, and include the name field. It can then be assigned to any other items. Both the Hero and User tag groups are dynamic, and are designed with this in mind.

Can you give an example of this, CC?

 

[Paragon]

Okay, I'm getting down to the point where I want to actually put this together, so let me see if I can do this the fancy way, or have to do it the easy way.

What I want to do is the following, but it may not work, and I'm not entirely clear how to do it:

1. I'll have a Tag set on the Racial entry for Simians that indicates the Less Educated racial trait is present (User.LessEdu). This Tag will also be used to block off access to the skills its supposed to.
2. In the actual Less Educated trait, it will bootstrap the Illiterate Hindrance and offset the "cost" of the Hindrance. I want it to look for the above Tag before doing these things.
3. I'll have an Edge (called Educated Simian) which gets rid of the above Tag on the Simian. If the second part can be done, this should eliminate the Hindrance, and also eliminate the Tag the blocked skills are looking for.

The thing I don't know is whether there's a way to do a conditional bootstrap in the Less Educated trait, rather than having the trait not be taken at all if the condition (the Tag) is missing. Is there? Its not self-evident how you'd go about it, if so. I can't just have the Less Educated trait itself not be taken, because its bundled in with the racial traits. If I can't, I can just have the Trait say that Illiterate is there, and the Edge say that it no longer is, but it'd be nice for it to actually display in the Hindrances.
3.

 

[zarlor]

Ok, so User tags are set to being Dynamic. If I'm reading CC's response above correctly the main error I've been making is that I can't create new User tags on the fly in the editor, but that I could have done so directly modifying the .user file instead with a line like assign User.LessEdu or something.

I'm not sure I can walk you through the process of doing that or how to do what you need right now (not enough sleep this week. Ugh.) but maybe that might give you another clue to the process?

 

[Paragon]

I've already assigned the User.LessEdu just by doing it in the normal tag area; since I had a racial ability of that name it accepted it fine.

What I don't know is a way to set a conditional bootstrap, i.e. telling the trait to bootstrap the Hindrance only if the tag is present. Since the trait is part of the racial package, I can't tell it just not to take the Less Educated trait, but I'm wondering if I can tell that to stop bootstrapping the Illiterate hindrance if the tag is not found.

 

[zarlor]

I the the process involves removing the tag since the bootstrap needs to already be there, but with the tag as a conditional modifier that hides. Remove the tag and the bootstrapped thing that was always there shows up. At least that's how I understand the theory of it to be. So I think the process needs to be that you bootstrap whatever it is you want to conditionally bootstrap, then use a tag in the Containerreq to hide that boostrap, then when you want to that bootstrapped thing to show up you somehow remove the tag? I could be completely off base with that, though. I never fully figured out the process.

 

[Paragon]

So how do you even do the conditional to hide the bootstrapped thing? Make a copy and make that conditional? I guess that could work. I'll try it.

 

[Paragon]

Just for reference, in case anyone reads this who is trying to do something similar, I got at least the first part of this (the add Hindrance, then remove Hindrance once the special Edge was applied) trick to work. This is what it ended up needing.
1. Apply the tag (User.LessEdu) to the Hero when the Race was chosen, on the Race object; This was set at Initialization/8000
2. Check for the Tag when the Racial Trait (Less Educated) kicks in to do the Bootstrap for the Hindrance (Initialization/7000)
3. When the Educated Simian Edge is taken, it goes in and deletes the User.LessEdu tag off the Hero (at Initialization/7500).
I haven't checked to see if things work right with the pick-req for the skills yet, but I'm reasonably confided that if the timing doesn't bork things up it'll work. But tricky, very tricky; it took me a while to figure out the tag had to be specifically applied to the Hero, and deleted off same, and that the timing had to be as it was.

 

[CapedCrusader]

mmmm... OK, steps 1 and 3 will get you what you need for the Skills. There will need to be code in the Educated Simian Edge so it costs the character build points, but doesn't count as an Edge as far as the number of Edges a character is allowed. (hero.child[resEdge].field[resMax].value += 1)

The problem is that you can't really do a conditional bootstrap. (Code limitation)

For Illiteracy, though, it really doesn't matter much. There's no background code for it, and the only place it's checked is in a couple of the Settings, which shouldn't apply to this. You don't really need to bootstrap the Hindrance, just make it part of the description for the Racial Trait. And the Educated Simian Edge could simply say the character is no longer Illiterate.

 

[Paragon]

mmmm... OK, steps 1 and 3 will get you what you need for the Skills. There will need to be code in the Educated Simian Edge so it costs the character build points, but doesn't count as an Edge as far as the number of Edges a character is allowed. (hero.child[resEdge].field[resMax].value += 1)

Yeah, I forgot about that part. Will that create any problems if you buy it once already in play? (Since it can be done either way).

The problem is that you can't really do a conditional bootstrap. (Code limitation)

Err? Sure you can, CC. Mathias has a discussion of it here:

http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?t=47611

For Illiteracy, though, it really doesn't matter much. There's no background code for it, and the only place it's checked is in a couple of the Settings, which shouldn't apply to this. You don't really need to bootstrap the Hindrance, just make it part of the description for the Racial Trait. And the Educated Simian Edge could simply say the character is no longer Illiterate.

I thought about doing that, but I was being fussy.

But as I said, other than forgetting about the Edge maximum offset, it seems to work.

 

[Paragon]

Okay, back again; I just realize pick-reqs look for things, not tags; so how do I code the skills I need to be blocked if the Tag is present?

 

[Paragon]

Just realized there's simpler way to do this; just have it bootstrap a custom version of the Hindrance instead of the normal one, then have the skills use that Hindrance be used for the Pick-Req.